posted
leave the classes as is.......they are fine, its the drastic shifting of the rules and removal and combining of larger classes that chases competitors away ie: streetmax1-2, and 3-4, now just streetmax. newbies into the sport start off small and then decide to step it up in their 2nd or 3rd season.
streetstock doesnt apeal to everyone, it does apeal to some just like all the classes. leave classes and rules he same and they will grow.
Put more focus on the incentives to compete at multiple shows throughout the seasons and you will see a growth in turnouts. "ESP" challenge? seems like a good idea! maybe if this incentive became the standard for promoters and db drag, competitors would know what to expect season to season.
posted
You get spectators when shows are big. That means you need enough competitors. There are not enouh competitors anymore. Why. Because of the panda. It is much nicer to watch at normal cars and not a stupid square panda. We play with it. Off course it is the loudest car. Banned it for street A-B-C. Let euro guy's play with crx cars without the backseat. Maybe then you will see differant cars and scores that is for everybody on the world about the same. Same chances. In street-max and superstreet it is not a problem. The scores of americans in superstreet have been the same of more then the superstreet cars in america. A panda is small so it is limited on the size of woofers. you guy's can make a superstreet with 4 18inch if you want. What about a streetmax with 4 18inch woofers and 4 amps 1batt. I think it is possible to do over 165. look at the superstreet in europe. 1-2 is louder then 3-4 and 5+. Thats all about the size of the car. The car is too small for the bigger classes.
Banned the panda
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Team Bemi - Peter, Tim en Tim street-A Alpine 9812RB Headunit 1X12" CS MK1 Kevlar CS elt12 Amplifier Battery Oddysee
Dutch Champion 2005 155.4DB 2006 Street-B 157DB 2007 Street-A 156.9DB spring break 2008 Street-A 157.7DB 2009 Street-A 158.4DB spring break 2009 Street-A 159.1DB NRW Meistershaft Posts: 534 | From: Holland | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
most people in top spl are having sponsors and getting they equipment for low amount of money....for regular people there is hard to give money for few amps, subs, batteries etc...to even try to build a good spl setup/car....when on the other side is some "factory" team with few recones, amps, batteries on disposale for every event...and when U came on some competition there is 20 pandas around...like U went on some junkyard lol .....normal cars cant do a good score compared to panda...and rest of the cars are walled etc....and why should I give xxx bucks for equipment, and still must get a panda if I want some score...etc...U know what i mean...regular cars dont have a chance comparing to panda....
-------------------- 2xAlpine type R 12"&Gz amp=151,1dB - no panda..just a normal car.... 2xAlpine subs+1950wrms=148,3dB - ported by LB audio Posts: 81 | From: Croatia | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
If we banned Pandas and Marbellas we lose lot of competitors.. My suggestion is to make 2 extra enty street classes with wire limitation, and amp. limtiation. And actual sreet classes leave like they are.
-------------------- Team CHS Team Baudio Team Cactus Sounds _ ______________ _ 2005 Street B ESB Sinsheim 2.place 156,3dB St. Polten 1.place 156,7dB 2007 Street A ESB Sinsheim 3.place 156,2dB 2008 ...
posted
what has hurt the competition formats is changing the rules all the time and not having events held togeather. the formats are all different in each orginazation so people cant compete from db to meca to iasca so they have to choose one so it limits the competitors at each event.i mean at least hold finals all togeather so there are 200-300 cars there and maybe people would cometo see it!
posted
i think street classes should be simplified, too many rules for newcomers if power is limited to battery size, then why is there a limit on amplifiers? there's only so much power you can get out of a single battery, does it really matter if its done by 1 12k amp or 4 3k amps? i think not
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Street A in a Yaris!
TEAM FOB FEAR OF BASS Posts: 135 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I think that a lot of this rule talk just gets lost in peoples hidden adgenda. Granted every now and then a valid idea does surface but due to bickering the ideas seem to get lost.
I dont think blaming amps or batterys will ever get any where. I'm sure some competitors know they will be misuseing the amps subs and batterys they have chosen to buy. Companys will keep striving to make improvemts to there products and try to stay on top of the market as being the best......we as competitors should under stand what they are doing. These companys do not push there products on people.....we search out such things. This is a problem brought on by people wanting to be the best. They were willing to spend what it took to be competitive. I'm have no idea at what point things got so bad that it took 10K+ amps to be competive in street. I would guess a select few people set the bar and others just followed.
People tryed diffrent cars and found what worked and what didn't.....well they found cars that take less work then others.I'm not trying to debate if a Panda is louder then a Crx. I have never owned eather. Maybe some cars just take less work then others....maybe some cars do just have a unfair advantage. We can not change what cars are common in parts of the world. Some may choose to import...others keep working on what they have.
I'm sure a lot of these factors have driven away a lot of people that competed for years and I'm also sure that these factors may discourage some new competitors. People come and people go, no amount of rule changing will fix this. Every show I see a lot of people that love doing this, I see new people that want to see what this is all about and I see a lot of people that wont come back.
In my opnion there are some people that are willing to do what it takes to win, a lot of people that choose to compete but dont have the desire/funds or skill to be able to win. Both types of peopel are needed to keep this sport going. I see the lack on new competitors haveing nothing to do with any of the above. A lot of people today are just lazy, sad to say but it's seen all over. This hody wont beable to move foward untill people want to win and are wiling to work for it.
Power is relative. Some need more...others need less. A sub only needs to be as strong as the power it is being fed. The strongest sub and most powerful amps is only as loud as the box and vechile it is used in. I wonder how much common knowledge on popular cars is more then a little flawed and has created the situation we have ended up in.
posted
^^^Pete, you showed in your no-wall build what it takes to be loud. Astro's werent known for being a no-wall vehicle, and you managed to break 160 with little amount of equipment. testing is the key to success in spl, and your build was i prime example of the dedication that most people lack. In my own astro no-wall, i tested like crazy and i discovered alot of factors in why my score was so limited (send me a pm and il explain)!
how we get high spl these days is through alot of trial and error, opposed to buying 12 of kenwoods best 12" subs and craming them in the car wherever they will fit. <thats easy to do! and it doesnt make you competitive anymore.
street A,B and C PRO for the people that have panda s or something like that or just like to play in that class
super street like it is
etrem like it is
this all works fine
no trophy s but certificat and money prices
the pro s has to do also something HELP people that wants to play db drag get them intrested
try to make brands, shops intrested to give a db drag show
it is not the classe and car but the interest that people have to join db drag
-------------------- proud member of team carmania 2007 street A 156.1 2008 street max 159.9 2008 super street 3-4 168.1 2009 street max 163.2 with 2 amps 2009 super street 3-4 168.3 2009 street B 161 and world champion Posts: 233 | From: holland | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
concern for a beginner in the db drag racing is money
a beginner will often start with a street a, b, c but the budget for integrated these categories and be competitive are enormous many cable amplifier 12kW 16kW ,.... subwoofer too dear with that a beginner will have a hard time making a competitive car and often abandoned I think when street should be limited power amplifiers limited power, verified in a competition
street a: 3kw Street B: 5kw Street c: 7kW not verify the data of the amplifier but measured at a shoot the real power that will prevent cheating
This is the limited budget and this street will not prevent to make beautiful score
and beginners can then be competitive with the strongest and it will be useless to put a lot of money to be on top many will be disappointed by the new regulations but it is good to boost competition and allow a newcomer to the sport
the stronger will be can not agree, why? afraid of competition??
delet the panda marbella or crx Not a good solution other car will come as good and it will be returned to the same reasons the budget! "
sorry for my bad English
Posts: 29 | From: belgium | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
dont think it is oke to change the rules then you make the die hards upset
what we did in benelux add some classes for the new people
we have mini street a,b and c
and for the wall people(or without wall) the pro classes in this class you can do what you want durp or music
-------------------- proud member of team carmania 2007 street A 156.1 2008 street max 159.9 2008 super street 3-4 168.1 2009 street max 163.2 with 2 amps 2009 super street 3-4 168.3 2009 street B 161 and world champion Posts: 233 | From: holland | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by team carmania: dont think it is oke to change the rules then you make the die hards upset
what we did in benelux add some classes for the new people
we have mini street a,b and c
and for the wall people(or without wall) the pro classes in this class you can do what you want durp or music
I know this system but have not used in the db drag racing only benelux I'm not interested
Why not change??
I think it would be better to change the rule it is so much competition in the best will not change because it is easy for them remained at the top but if we change the rules will be the best fits the best is difficult due to accept the change? why should we keep it for him to remain at the top?
have a big budget big subwoofer amplifiers big brass bars under the car Anyone who starts in the street can not be competitive if you want new competitor in the db drag racing it absolutely scaffold concourire enable them without having to buy 5,000 or 10,000 € uros material if in 5 years there will be more comic drag racing just tell them I have a budget of 5000 € uros and he ran Judges must be aware that they must adapt the Regulation to enable the smooth deroullement the db drag racing and change the category street I think other classes are reserved for people more experienced and do not change it remains a good show and a desire to move to these categories (uper Street, NW, extrem) it's just my opinion
Posts: 29 | From: belgium | Registered: Jan 2009
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and after last finals 2008 we had to invest allot to get our street b at the top and we did it
so other competitors can do that also
don t change rules to get more people just add some classe so that more new people can start but the big problem in db drag is that there is no big show or car show is that people come to new people don t know db drag
last year we held our on show at a local garage and the people from the village came to it and asked what is this
we explend it to them and they didn t know it but they liked it
we got in the local news paper
so maybe if you keep a show you can invite the local tv to come and film so you get more people intreted
you get my point
-------------------- proud member of team carmania 2007 street A 156.1 2008 street max 159.9 2008 super street 3-4 168.1 2009 street max 163.2 with 2 amps 2009 super street 3-4 168.3 2009 street B 161 and world champion Posts: 233 | From: holland | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I agree with you you've made a lot of investment to get where you been
but I think it revolves around a tree and solution can for the db drag racing hard it must change the rules or bring new category but does not limit a specific brand and model but only by the power and keep the street to b and c as they are or change categories street
a big decision for db drag racing!
Posts: 29 | From: belgium | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
who will decide who is new comer in S-A, S_B, S-C? why wouldnt "new comer" came with a panda... and that panda is made by professional competitor and just "borrow" it to a friend which never competed in db drag??
-------------------- 2xAlpine type R 12"&Gz amp=151,1dB - no panda..just a normal car.... 2xAlpine subs+1950wrms=148,3dB - ported by LB audio Posts: 81 | From: Croatia | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
introducing additional vehicle classes is the only way I see to negate the competitive advantages of running a panda/crx.
classes like van, trunk, SUV, truck classes etc, where regular street rules could apply. it would add variety, and allow people to compete with their daily drivers and possibly be competitive.
limiting power in some classes (or making a set of amateur classes where power is limited) would help with the investment issue as well. but pissing off the hardcore competitors isn't the way to go.
like people have said, you need both the hardcores AND newcomers for dbdrag to survive. most newcomers don't walk in playing with a CRX or a panda, or multiple $1k amps/subs, and nobody likes losing by 15db when first starting out. and I'm sure some hardcores would enjoy the challenge of trying to make a loud trunk car or truck.
Posts: 8 | From: Calgary, Canada | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
back in the old days there where a huge amount off classes and a huge amount off competitors
rule changes and class reduction is not gonna bring more people
a bigger playing field and publicity creates more people
how about we drop the trophy's and keep it to the certificates , they give alot more info on what was achieved and alot cheaper no trophy's gets more money wich can be spend on holding more shows
-------------------- Team Cactus Sounds platinum member
posted
3 new classes for beginners: With no rules,ar maybe a few "basic" ones. This would create a playground for the average "Joe's" to "compete" in a way they want. Verry basic,verry simpel. smal-medium-large,like a Coke by Mc-donalds.
-------------------- Kicker competition team
streetA 2005,157.2db with only 2 Kicker 10" L7's. Posts: 295 | From: belgium | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Why is it that everyone seems to think newbies can (and do) run 2kw+? Everyone that has suggested power limitations starts at like 2kw. I'm a newbie and have never run more than 2kw. I'm not even close. I'm currently running my biggest setup, and it's a Sundown 1500D. Newbies don't have money nor electrical to run 2kw+.
Someone suggested a 3kw, 5kw, 10kw class structure. IIRC, TMH clamped his ELT 12 at 4800w. So having the 3, 5, and 10kw steps and limited batteries still means you need a $1500+ amp to get decent power.
Also, if you want to get shops involved, have classes that what they sell fits into. Limit the power to 800w, 1500w and 2k+ for newbie classes. Most shops around here don't sell anything bigger than 1kw (and that's either a RF punch 1000.1bd or a JL 1000/1). Make classes that these amps can run competitively in. Have these completely separate from Street classes. Think about it. If you put in 500+ hours on your car to get the most out of it for current rules (and I'm sure most of you did, and some more) wouldn't you be pissed if all of a sudden the rules got changed, and you had to throw away all of your time/effort/money? That's why I say leave Street alone and introduce lower classes for newbies.
Another thing to get rid of. Stamped baskets and 2.5" coils. With forums like CA.com and CACO (among others) the availability of 3" coiled subs with cast/machined baskets is through the roof. Like Pete said, the sub is only as good as the power going through it. So while the sub choice will have a bit of an impact on the score, it won't be the 15db of an extra 5kws and a CRX/Panda. Trust me, I've been there. I got beat by like 17db by Eric at my 2nd comp or something like that. If I would've been more serious about it, that would've pissed me off or whatever, but I really didn't care, since I go to shows more for the people.
What got me hooked on dbdrag/bassrace was when I stopped by a local shop for something and saw a flyer for a comp. I missed the one on Saturday, but went to the Sunday show and saw about 12 guys all hanging out and having fun in ~30 degree weather. Guys (Tommy K, Hank and Rob) had driven several hours to compete against (effectively) nobody. I think the biggest class was NW with like 3 people in it. But everyone was having fun, and that's what it's all about.
Another thing I don't understand. Why can't a DD street car have a hu outside the car? Mine does. It only cost me like $20 to do it, and it works great. When I'm driving daily, you can't tell there's anything different about the car, yet I can pull the hu outside the car for bassrace. That eliminates the chance of remote failure, and is a lot easier than dealing with a remote. Plus it saves some ear drums (even though the 140+db rule does that, when it's enforced).
As for a comment a couple pages back about all bassrace cars becoming tanks that aren't drivable. That's the biggest load of crock I've ever heard. My DD is a 29.9 bassracer, and I'm doing pretty well with it. 2nd on Sunday at Maxxonics, 3rd in Cincinnati at ESP #10, 2nd overal at ESP Finals. Not too shabby for someone in their first year.
The cash prizes of the ESP Challenge is a huge help. I made back all of my entry fees for ESP finals, so it was extremely nice, especially for a poor college kid like me.
I think the main thing I'm seeing in threads like this is that most of you seasoned veterans have lost touch with the newbies like me. Most people that go into a shop think 500w is loud enough. So why force them to go out and get 2kws in order to be competitive? It just doesn't make sense to me...
Posts: 135 | From: Lebanon, Ohio | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by 98AckCL23: Why is it that everyone seems to think newbies can (and do) run 2kw+? Everyone that has suggested power limitations starts at like 2kw. I'm a newbie and have never run more than 2kw. I'm not even close. I'm currently running my biggest setup, and it's a Sundown 1500D. Newbies don't have money nor electrical to run 2kw+.
Someone suggested a 3kw, 5kw, 10kw class structure. IIRC, TMH clamped his ELT 12 at 4800w. So having the 3, 5, and 10kw steps and limited batteries still means you need a $1500+ amp to get decent power.
Also, if you want to get shops involved, have classes that what they sell fits into. Limit the power to 800w, 1500w and 2k+ for newbie classes. Most shops around here don't sell anything bigger than 1kw (and that's either a RF punch 1000.1bd or a JL 1000/1). Make classes that these amps can run competitively in. Have these completely separate from Street classes. Think about it. If you put in 500+ hours on your car to get the most out of it for current rules (and I'm sure most of you did, and some more) wouldn't you be pissed if all of a sudden the rules got changed, and you had to throw away all of your time/effort/money? That's why I say leave Street alone and introduce lower classes for newbies.
Another thing to get rid of. Stamped baskets and 2.5" coils. With forums like CA.com and CACO (among others) the availability of 3" coiled subs with cast/machined baskets is through the roof. Like Pete said, the sub is only as good as the power going through it. So while the sub choice will have a bit of an impact on the score, it won't be the 15db of an extra 5kws and a CRX/Panda. Trust me, I've been there. I got beat by like 17db by Eric at my 2nd comp or something like that. If I would've been more serious about it, that would've pissed me off or whatever, but I really didn't care, since I go to shows more for the people.
What got me hooked on dbdrag/bassrace was when I stopped by a local shop for something and saw a flyer for a comp. I missed the one on Saturday, but went to the Sunday show and saw about 12 guys all hanging out and having fun in ~30 degree weather. Guys (Tommy K, Hank and Rob) had driven several hours to compete against (effectively) nobody. I think the biggest class was NW with like 3 people in it. But everyone was having fun, and that's what it's all about.
Another thing I don't understand. Why can't a DD street car have a hu outside the car? Mine does. It only cost me like $20 to do it, and it works great. When I'm driving daily, you can't tell there's anything different about the car, yet I can pull the hu outside the car for bassrace. That eliminates the chance of remote failure, and is a lot easier than dealing with a remote. Plus it saves some ear drums (even though the 140+db rule does that, when it's enforced).
As for a comment a couple pages back about all bassrace cars becoming tanks that aren't drivable. That's the biggest load of crock I've ever heard. My DD is a 29.9 bassracer, and I'm doing pretty well with it. 2nd on Sunday at Maxxonics, 3rd in Cincinnati at ESP #10, 2nd overal at ESP Finals. Not too shabby for someone in their first year.
The cash prizes of the ESP Challenge is a huge help. I made back all of my entry fees for ESP finals, so it was extremely nice, especially for a poor college kid like me.
I think the main thing I'm seeing in threads like this is that most of you seasoned veterans have lost touch with the newbies like me. Most people that go into a shop think 500w is loud enough. So why force them to go out and get 2kws in order to be competitive? It just doesn't make sense to me...
I agree with you on alot of points.
But when they were talking about bass race cars becoming rolling tanks they were referring to the 159.9 class
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Posts: 8169 | From: Russellville AL | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
wow look at all the love. 2010 is going to be fun.
-------------------- TEAM XTREME LOUD AUDIO THE LOUD CROWD Team Dc Sound Labs. Posts: 2789 | From: Springfield Ma | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by TeamSubGoPoof: I agree with you on alot of points.
But when they were talking about bass race cars becoming rolling tanks they were referring to the 159.9 class
I figured they meant 59.9, but they weren't specific. That's why I made that comment...
As for extreme cars running bassrace, maybe make a special class for cars that don't have stock glass anymore.
Posts: 135 | From: Lebanon, Ohio | Registered: Apr 2009
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