No "competition grade" equipment at all. Wayne clarified that to me the other day when I was talking to him. He doesn't want to see expensive spl gear in the class. He wants to see the kind of gear that the average consumer can walk into any stereo shop and buy and compete and not mortgage his house to get. I totally agree with this class and the guidelines of it. Without a class like this getting somebody new into the sport is unlikely and hard to do.
-------------------- Team Custom Team Powerbass Team Powermaster Team Ascendant/Fi Team Soundigital Posts: 595 | From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by dB Drag Feldjaeger: no every amp max 2000 watt power
regards Mike
I believe its 2000rms not max and no competition products
-------------------- The Boyscouts Of America are honoring Michael Jackson by flying there pants at half mast Posts: 376 | From: Somewhere | Registered: Feb 2008
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# Only consumer grade components may be used. ** A consumer can buy every components he wants like CS or DD (just for example)**
# Any number of amplifiers may be used. However, the maximum total RMS power in the system must be 2000 watts or less. ** You can use how much you want but never over the maximum total RMS power of 2000 Watts**
# Street Stock Class - 2000 Watts maximum total RMS power. A maximum of 4 conductors may be attached to each woofer. (Please see the definitions section for more detail regarding conductors.)
Regards Mike
-------------------- Mike Dupont Head Judge dB Drag Racing
quote:Originally posted by dB Drag Feldjaeger: 2.5
Street Stock Division
# Only consumer grade components may be used. ** A consumer can buy every components he wants like CS or DD (just for example)**
# Any number of amplifiers may be used. However, the maximum total RMS power in the system must be 2000 watts or less. ** You can use how much you want but never over the maximum total RMS power of 2000 Watts**
# Street Stock Class - 2000 Watts maximum total RMS power. A maximum of 4 conductors may be attached to each woofer. (Please see the definitions section for more detail regarding conductors.)
Regards Mike
So being a judge, I would like to know YOUR definition of "consumer grade"?
Because I am kind of picking up that you are going to allow any amp at all as long it has a "so-called" 2000 watt rating, even though we know it will make way more power (hmmm, like 4000 watts ) and be more of a specialized high power unit... am I right?
Which if unchecked, will make this class a joke, and take it away from what it was originally intended, A cheap beginner class, to get the average consumer enticed into competing and involved in db drag. This is a really good idea for a sport that isn't exactly growing by leaps and bounds, and it could be ruined before it even gets off the ground and does it's intended purpose.
-------------------- Team Custom Team Powerbass Team Powermaster Team Ascendant/Fi Team Soundigital Posts: 595 | From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Hey Dale, I hope I can help you with your question.
If the power of the amplifiers come into question then power during the run will be measured to verify it does not go over 2000 wrms. Most if not all Judges and competitors know what is consumer grade products, I would like to see the cast basket clause removed but other than that its fine.
If someone chooses to run a 4kw amp then they risk losing if they go over 2kw during the run.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig -All Out S.P.L. Saskatchewan's dB Drag event promoter -Check the Termpro homepage partners for the companies I support. Posts: 2608 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Hey Murilo there will be no world record recognized in the street stock class
-------------------- The Boyscouts Of America are honoring Michael Jackson by flying there pants at half mast Posts: 376 | From: Somewhere | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
i measure every run if i got a street stock car. i look also if there is a amp which is rms 2k. is there a bigger one i dont allow to run in street stock.
regards mike
-------------------- Mike Dupont Head Judge dB Drag Racing
posted
Street stock should only be for new competitors.... Wayne should just limit power wire in this class to 1 run of wire (you must use a chasis ground and not ground back to the battery)... that will make the amp and subwoofer limits not matter! Imagine a cactus 5k and just for arguments sake 2 atomic apxx 12's with 4" coils... With the power wire restriction I would bet that you arent going to get any power out of the amp and the "competition grade woofer" wont matter with the limited battery power making it to the amp! This is a beginner class and I would hope that people arent out there trying to circumvent the rules of this class! Come on guys this class is intended to get new guys into the sport not have veterans try to set records... I would imagine that this is why Wayne does not honor a record in street stock. New guys should play in this class for 1... maybe 2 years and then either move on to street class or just do bass race. Doing power tests on every street stock run is a ridiculous idea, Am I supposed to bring 2 amp clamps, 2 multimeters, and if we are doing rms 2 o-scopes to every show we judge and spend a stupid amount of time setting up my gear to make sure no one is cheating??? Oh yeah and I would have to bring a pair calculators too? Why take the class devoted to beginners and put the most effort into judging it? Kudo's to the guys in street stock, im glad to have you in the sport! I by no means dislike this class, personally I think it is a great stepping stone for newbies but, that is all it should be and we shouldnt be this concerned over weither the basket is stamped or its an rockford 2k or a sd 2k.... sorry for the rant but this class needs to be brought back down to what it really is... a place for new guys to get there feet wet and meet veterans at shows to learn about spl!
-------------------- The Boyscouts Of America are honoring Michael Jackson by flying there pants at half mast Posts: 376 | From: Somewhere | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
I agree with some of what audiocustoms85 is saying, some of it. It seems that when you try and make a class for new competitors and you try to make it cheap and simple, then the more complicated it seems to become. I experienced this in my absolute, true first year, last year - no teams, no shops, no assistance from anyone but myself along with a great deal of asking questions to a lot of great people and alot of reading. I went through this "beginner class" issue in MECA as well. In some ways this class was more challenging then the regular Street Classes in that org.
The one statement that I do not agree with is when he stated: New guys should play in this class for 1... maybe 2 years and then either move on to street class or just do bass race
After competing this year, my options next year are to move into maybe Street A,B, or C or just Bass Race only. This does not seem right to me. I think the problem is looking to create a class that is for "beginners only" does not work. I thought that in the beginning SST was for a lower cost (a major issue these days for many) alternative to Street A,B, or C and place for new people to enter and learn. I mean no disrespect to anyone's opinion, but I already posted my story about entering DB Drag as a brand spankin new comp. last year:
and I think speak for the "new guy". In fact, there are new guys this year that are new to competing and new to DB Drag that are more knowledgeable and more experienced then I am or may ever be. How can you ever truly classify someone as a newbie, maybe they are new to you or a new name to DB Drag but there cousin is Terry Brock and you don't know. How many people that competed in SST Aor B last year were part of teams that have years of experience? Look at the link to the gentlemen who won WFs in SST A last year. Yet, I heard no complaints from anyone and I would not and did not complain - I loved every part of my first year. My point is that I do not think you can classify the person competing but you can classify the equipment and the install that they are competing with. This is how I totally agree with ac85. Certain restrictions in this class will level the playing ground for ALL COMPETITORS - new and old. But, the newbie only thing - no. There's no glory in winning that way (remember, that which does not kill us only makes us stronger) and if you do and get use to it, in 2 years your azzzzzzz will be handed to you in a new class that you choose because you will never have had to work hard and learn more to get ready for that type of competition. As a newbie, I was beat and I went home wanting to work harder learn more and come back louder against whoever, new or old. In closing, it is up to all of us - the competitors who love this sport - to help this sport and gain new competitors. Not just a specific class. We need to continue bringing new people into it, we need to continue promoting it, we need to do our part as Nathan Potter and the way to awesome guys in Md did for me. Bryan Keith pulled his laptop out and was showing me pics of a bunch of his past installs at the first show I went to watch before deciding to compete. It was the excitement of competition and the friendly atmosphere that drew me in and then the SPL gene in me was awakened and grew after each show - win or lose.
Posts: 55 | From: ALLova | Registered: Oct 2008
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So, the more restrictions the worse, the average Joe should be able to see a SPL show and enter to try, sometimes he will have 2 power wires (+ and -), sometimes he will have a poor SPL sub but cast basket and wont be able to compete...
posted
They would be able to compete Murilo, just not in street stock. They would be placed into there according classes based on there equiptment. They could get a feel for db drag at there first show and if they like it they could alter there setup to run street stock if they wish. Last year we had freestyle class which was perfect for people at their first show but even if we sill had it the rule was that if you took 1st place at a show in freestyle class you had to move up to street stock or the according class based on you system. There is no perfect system and you cant expect to be at the top of your class right out of the gate. You have to put the time and money in just like everyone else has had to. Do street stock for a few years to gain knowledge of the sport and you will kno when you are ready to move up and play with the big boys Guys im not at all knocking street stock or its competitors... im just stating that I dont want to see people pushing the rules as far as you can and beyond in this class lets keep it for beginners like its intended for and keep it fun for the new guys so that they want to come to more shows!
JT I got mad respect for what you have done so far in SST and what you are saying now... I understand what you are saying about my idea of a newbie rule and I agree with you... I just want to make easier to audit cars in your class, and I dont want to drive new guys away. For example, most guys in SST are no where near as knowledgeable of the rules as you are (your knowledge of the rules is a good thing and I appreciated you coming up to me with your sub so we didnt have to hold up the show checking it) at the show in carlisle a gentleman had a 600w alpine amp but he had a type x woofer which is a cast basket.... it just becomes tedious to have to check everyones subs (luckily I have a pretty good knowledge of whats behind the dust cap lol) but then you have to tell him why he is in St. A and against 8k amps and another guy is in SST with 2 entry level 12" DD's and more than 3 times the power he had. (JT just an example because of the DD name) Like I said we just need to limit the power wire to 1 run of 1/0 max. Chassis ground behind the rear seats and be done with limiting equiptment.... Your only gonna get so much out of a 650ci bat and 1 run of 1/0 and I bet its right around 2000w give or take alittle. Oh and JT I have seen you box/install dont be so modest about your knowledge of spl
-------------------- The Boyscouts Of America are honoring Michael Jackson by flying there pants at half mast Posts: 376 | From: Somewhere | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Hey, who are you ac85??? I think I agree with you for most everything that we have discussed. I sent the email to Wayne after the matrix came out trying to make some of the same points you are making. I didn't agree with doing away with cast baskets either because of the many "entry level" subs that people use all day, everyday that are cast. I also want it to be a smooth flow in the lanes and easier for judges to judge and have some fun too. I think the idea of no more then 1 run of 1/0 + and - is great! I think I sent that to Wayne also.
Posts: 55 | From: ALLova | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
I was one of the judges at Carlisle .... I also helped judge at finals last year... Im the one walking towards the camera
-------------------- The Boyscouts Of America are honoring Michael Jackson by flying there pants at half mast Posts: 376 | From: Somewhere | Registered: Feb 2008
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Like James I did SSTA last year privateer style: - no "team" support - own pocket - Got ideas and help from other competitors.
I had a blast. Yeah it was my first full year of competition...and made a few mistakes and learned from them and got great advice along the way (as did others). This is what competeting should be about...friends family and above all fun.
I agree with the power wire limits...but in fairness..Unless we address the issues with the street class it would be a waste. Like stated its crazy to have to go against a car with 16+ runs of 1/0,8-10 Kw of amp power and you have only 2000 watts and a pair of alpine type R's !!!
Yeah its great to bring in new people,but what about the vets? Many have walked away due to rising costs of being competative on a Nationwide even World wide stage. The vets are those who will travel for shows and bring funds to areas...the local guy may hit that one show and never venture from its boundaries. there has to be a happy medium achieved.
-------------------- Chuck Whitney Jr. '95 VW Jetta III 2008: World Finals:Street Stock A - 4th place Regional 2009: New Season..New Class..getting back to basics
posted
Just because someone has a team doesnt mean they have an advantage! If u r not lucky enough to get a team of people that have the same motivation, then get some friends with the same interset. The class should be for whoever wants to run it.(that makes it a cheap alternative for an expensive class) I have been very fortunate to have a great team by my side.If this class depens on only new guys then u might as well Just get get rid of it now cause it will fail.This is just my opinion, but too many people get on this forum and complain about street stock.The stamped steel idea is ok I do think there r lots of cast subs that fit in this category.Dont complain about the class if u r not even in it! And if u r a judge its not very hard to know what stuff is out there.We have shows around here all the time and NO PROBLEM figuring out what is street stock and what is not.Chuck u and james were very awesome guys last year and I hope u the very best this year.Nice scores this year so far james!!! Good luck too all that run the class and everyone who competes in general.Lets have a good season and see u all in the lanes!! ALSO A PREFAB BOX WAS GOOD ENOUGH LAST YEAR Y NOT MAKE IT A RULE THIS YEAR.It would keep the #s down for sure. TEAM SOUND IMPRESSIONS - TIM
-------------------- Team Sound Impressions 2008 world finals street stock a 1st place- Indy Posts: 76 | From: kalamazoo mi | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I was waiting for you guys, where you been? I hope that there are no bad feelings brought out by this topic. I had a blast last year and am having a blast this year. I hung out at a few shows with Chuck (wazzup) and I met Tim and alot of other awesome SSTockers at Finals including Tim's Team (wazzup to all-very cool and extremely helpful!!!) . I don't mind the Team competitors or the veterans, as I stated earlier. I think we all want the same outcome as well. To make this class work, to have fun and compete at a lower cost. Everyone wants the sport to continue and to grow with lots of new competitors. Maybe there is another way to look at this situation. SST is a great class for many - new comp. (that are in it to win it), veterans, high rollers, people on a budget, people on Teams, everyone. Let's make it a great new class. Then there should be a class that is for the new person to "have fun"in but may not be ready to compete all out. The problem is we are all competitors who are wanting to win. The other class can be offered at all shows a "practice class" a "test and tune class". They run like everyone else but go through the lanes one at a time and gain experience and knowledge from everyone else. These people should not have memberships and do not need them b/c there are no rules, no equip. checks, no points, no records not even placings at the shows. Maybe a certificate that prints there scores. When ever that person decides there ready and have had enough practice for the sport, then they compete. All the while they can Bass Race 119.9 or 129.9 or ... This could help make it better for the new person to have fun and catch the bug (maybe it has a very low entry fee also = $5). This does not fix the rules of SST (a competition grade class) but it does make sense for the new person - IMO. I mentioned fusing SST but I have learned from MECA that this really may not control power limits. The fact that it's using music, one battery and maybe adding the max of one 1/0 rule is a great plan along with a fuse rule sine it's Street STOCK. May not control power but makes sense for the class and helps a bit, maybe it has to be a 150 anl. Just a thought to help the class. You are all cool with me and AC85/Pycho's are awesome too. Together, we can make it a great class and not have it get out of control!
Posts: 55 | From: ALLova | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
Very good post, i agree with u and no hard feeling from any of us here.We do db drag for the love of it anyway.It may just be too expensive for some people to do big classes.As long as people dont try to exceed the limits(u no they will) the class will be cool and bring in some new people.I do believe street stock will grow large and be a success.James u have been very cool and i agree with mostly everything you have to say bout the class.Lets just keep trying to make it better, and if people ever stop crying about the class that will make it better already.
-------------------- Team Sound Impressions 2008 world finals street stock a 1st place- Indy Posts: 76 | From: kalamazoo mi | Registered: Mar 2008
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I guess the big question is who are we building the class for? All of our ideas for making the class affordable,fair and easy to judge (IMHO - I'm not a judge though) seem to have been lost im the shuffle. What makes sense to some becomes issues to others. I think we should just work on the 2010 rules now.
And though the prefab box idea is a great one,that just adds one more uneeded "gray area" to the list.
I meant no disrespect by the team comment... At finals we all showed what at combined effort can accomplish: - nobody got DQ'd. - competitors went above and beyond to help each other out.
I wish you all th ebest this season and hope to see you in the lanes.
EDIT: Yeah no hard feelings at all. I just want to do this class because: - its fun - its hella affordable - it opens people eyes
-------------------- Chuck Whitney Jr. '95 VW Jetta III 2008: World Finals:Street Stock A - 4th place Regional 2009: New Season..New Class..getting back to basics
posted
I take no offense to the team comment....But wayne made the rules when he said stamped steel subs.In that case it make it very easy, if u want to run street stock go out and get stamped steel subs.If u dont then dont run the class.Makes it very easy to understand it.And chuck u have been cool to me and my guys even offered u subs at finals.maybe next year if the class works, they will change the rules to different subs, until then work with what is allowed.I hope it works out for everyone and GOOD LUCK to all street stock guys.
-------------------- Team Sound Impressions 2008 world finals street stock a 1st place- Indy Posts: 76 | From: kalamazoo mi | Registered: Mar 2008
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