posted
It doesnt say anything in the rules that the box must be under the deck and in conventional trunk cars everyone builds foward anyway. In my Monte I am sure the box was actually above the deck also. I would have to double check that on mine but I am sure that there are cars like that anyway.
Rather then writing 2 new definitions that don't do what they want them too anyway and opening a can of worms that may affect a bunch of other cars also, wouldn't this make more sense
Exceptions:
· If the subwoofer enclosure is installed in the trunk of a vehicle, then compliance with the “wall test” is not required but the subwoofer enclosure must not interfere with the veiw through the rear window or windows from side to side and/or rear window looking from outside the vehicle.
This is clear IMO and doesn't open any new issues and is about as easy to test as I think you will ever come up with. It also would allow common sense to dictate that a hatchback has a hatch in the back.
in ALL trunk cars comepting in dbdrag, the enclosure is confined to the trunk.
if rear seats are foldable, you can fold the seats down, but the enclosure is stil lconfined to the trunk.
you can not bring the enclosure forward, or build it forward, and it can not be sitting on top of the rear seats.
so, in that respect and assumption.. you are wrong.
that's why everyone makes such a big deal of mike stiers and jason r's trunk cars being so loud.. because it was FROM THE TRUNK.
if they could have built forward of the trunk, then it would have been as big a deal. but being confined to the trunk, andconfined to whatever oepening the manufacture gave behind the rear seats, made thier scores impressive.
my buick also comepted as a trunk car. but, being confined to the trunk, and not being able to fold theseats, made it pointless. so i switched to street max so i could remove the rear seat, and ended up building a wall in it.
furthermore, your idea for rewriting the rule, would violate other rules, and make you and your car special.
there is alreayd a street rule that clearly defines how big an enclosure can be... ie: not higher than the lowest point of the front windows.
why should your car be any different.
the thing that bothers me the most about this.. other than the fact that you have been whining about this for longer than i ever expected a grown man to do... is that earlier, and in several other threads, it was hinted at, that you wanted a rule just for you. you wanted the rules to be built around you so you could use your car...
you of course denied that.
but in your last post.. it makes your intentions rather clear..
"Rather then writing 2 new definitions that don't do what they want them too anyway and opening a can of worms that may affect a bunch of other cars also, wouldn't this make more sense"
you dont want the rule to affect a bunch of other cars, but you DO want it to afect your car
it got old a LONG time ago.
if you dont liek the rules.. there are several different option:
1. switch to bass race , where you would actually have a fighting chance anyway.
2. switch to psychlone , where you would actually have a fighting chance anyway.
3. switch vehicles.
4. switch orginizations.
-------------------- Team Maxxsonics . Hooker Audio . Ohio Generator 2005 dBDrag World Finals Street Max 1-2 6th place 2006 dBDrag World Finals Street Max 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points Championship 3rd w/315 points : SPLMax Competitor of the Year 2007 Usaci Ohio State Records : Modified 2001-4000 : Modified 4000-up : Port Wars Open : Street Beat 4 2007 dBDrag Top U.S. SM 1-2 certified score : World Finals Street Max 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points Championship 9th w/215 points Posts: 3254 | From: Toledo, Ohio | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
You should have spent half the time you spent typing, reading what we were talking about. Nobody was suggesting anything close to building out onto the seats or beyond the trunk. Sid said that you can't build in front of the rear deck. In his opinion that's where the trunk ends. I said that due to the way the seats sloped that many, if not all, the loud trunk cars had built out to the seat.(meaning that the trunk ended at the seat back while in the upright possition not the deck) That means that at the bottom many boxes are in front of the deck yet still behind the seats even if they are folded up.
As for trying to write a rule for my car, yes, if you want to look at it that way fine. The ones in place right now don't work even with these new definitions. By the ones right now I can put in a pseudo wall in because it has a trunk. That wouldn't be fair. So yes I guess if you want to say I am trying to write a rule for my car you shouldn't leave out that it will actually limit what I can do substantially from the way the rules currently read. The fact that my car could have a wall is the only reason I was ever given by anyone that they were calling my car a hatchback. Its not a hatchback, so calling it one is crazy.
posted
if you plan to run in street classes, i dont care how the rules read.. wether its determined to be a trunk or hatch is irrelavent, you still cant have a wall in street class.
that's just being plain silly.
you know it, and i know it.
-------------------- Team Maxxsonics . Hooker Audio . Ohio Generator 2005 dBDrag World Finals Street Max 1-2 6th place 2006 dBDrag World Finals Street Max 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points Championship 3rd w/315 points : SPLMax Competitor of the Year 2007 Usaci Ohio State Records : Modified 2001-4000 : Modified 4000-up : Port Wars Open : Street Beat 4 2007 dBDrag Top U.S. SM 1-2 certified score : World Finals Street Max 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points Championship 9th w/215 points Posts: 3254 | From: Toledo, Ohio | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
yep.....Thats why the rules need changed. If you are in agreement that wall like boxes don't belong in street quit trying to argue with me by agreeing with me. The way the rules read right now it's only a matter of time before someone finds another car this applies to. It sounds like Sid already has infact. How many others are there? Who knows..
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick: .... due to the way the seats sloped that many, if not all, the loud trunk cars had built out to the seat.(meaning that the trunk ended at the seat back while in the upright possition not the deck) That means that at the bottom many boxes are in front of the deck yet still behind the seats even if they are folded up.
And, if your vehicle had rear foldable seats, you could do the same. But, since your vehicle does not have a rear seat, the only guide that can be used is the forward edge of the rear deck. Using only the deck as a guide, nothing can be placed infront of the rear deck. If any part of the enclosure is placed in front of the rear deck, then it would be considered to be outside of the trunk space.
But, just for the sake of conversation, how far ahead of the rear deck do you suggest you should be allowed to utilize?
posted
The rear deck should have nothing to do with it. It hasn't had in the past and using it to close a loophole may open more for conventional trunk cars. IMO the current rule should be mofified so that it doesn't.
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick: The rear deck should have nothing to do with it. It hasn't had in the past and using it to close a loophole may open more for conventional trunk cars. IMO the current rule should be mofified so that it doesn't.
There are no loopholes to close, and the current rule does not need to be modified.
You have one vehicle that does not fit well within the class that you prefer to patrticipate in, but that is no reason to make adjustmets to the rules. If we adjusted the rules for your vehicle, then we would have to adjust the rules for everyone else who thinks they are at a disadvantage.
Every vehicle can have both pros and cons, when it comes to stereo competition. It is up to the competitor to evaluate those differences, and make a decision as to if they want to use their vehicle of choice.
A great thing about stereo competitions (not just dB Drags) is that there are varieties of classes for the competitor to participate in. If one class does not suit the competitor's desires, they have the option to choose a different class. If the competitor elects to be steadfast about participating in a particular class, then they have the responsibilty to make sure their vehicle complies within the rules for that class.
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick: LMAO now corvettes are trucks. As crazy as it may sound (saying a Corvette is a truck) I agree it is a more logical way to look at it then saying it has a hatchback. The problem is that basically I have been told it's a hatchback because (insert whatever reason of the week here). Well guess what ....it's not. You might as well tell me it's pink with poka-dots. It's just insulting to anyone's intelligence to say that any car without a hatch in the back is a hatchback car. By the definition given at the top of this thread all early corvettes are neither a hatchback or a trunk car or both a hatchback and a trunk car depening on which parts you want to use or if you apply the whole thing. All I am really looking for here is the rules to include cars like this without insulting my intelligence in the process by trying to find a way to call my car something it's not. I would like the rules to include cars that are neither hatchbacks or trunks and help level the playing field for more types of cars.
The other orgs rules are written in a way that do not care what the car is and they have many more types of cars competing with a bigger variety of equipment. This is good for getting new competitors since you don't need to buy a car to be competitive.
I also have noticed that the install rules for the bigger divisions mirror each other in dB drag and Usaci, they even use the same drawings to illustrate what can be done. I assume this is so that people can run both orgs without major changes. This too is good for the sport by increasing turnouts for both orgs at shows by allowing the same install to be legal at either. So why are the entry level classes so different.
For those not familiar with what is different I will list the major things and my opinion of the result.
1. Batteries dB Drag allows 1 in ST A + ST B an 2 in c This has been done to limit power to amps thus keep amp size down but instead has lead to the use of $1200 batteries. It also leads to more blown amps from low voltage.
Batteries in Usaci Pro Stock are unlimited but must be properly installed. This allows the use of cheaper batteries to be used.
2. Car off in dB drag. Once again $1200 batteries, and damaged amps from low voltage.
Car running in Usaci Cheap batteries and less of them. This also is more realistic for a street system.
3. 12volt only batteries in dB drag This is done because supposedly nobody runs 16v in a street car.....I get at least a call a week from a non competitor setting up a 16v set up though.
16v batteries in Usaci It allows smaller/cheaper amps to be used but still produce good power.
4. box height in dB drag is based on front door window line This has given a few cars a huge advantage over others. The box height needs limited somehow but what do the front doors have to do with it?
Box height is limited by rear windows in Usaci This is done with safety in mind. It's so that no rear view is blocked. It also makes many more cars able to compete reasonably with CRX's. It is much easier to test also. Just use a laser light through the windows if you don't hit the install then your legal.
It seems many of the street rules in dB drag are in place to keep cost down by limiting power without using amp ratings. What has happened is that it actually cost more. In reality the only real power limit that is working is amount of power a voice coil will handle, you just need to be willing to spend a ton of money for the right amps an batteries. The classes already limit the number of subs/voice coils so that's the only power limit that is working.
Usaci I am sure is not perfect but the rules do seem to help keep cost own and allow many types of cars to compete with a wider variety of equipment on a more level playing field. As much as I know everyone is against changing the rules at all, sometimes you need to admit what you thought was perfect needs some changes. I am sure I will get flamed for this by the CRX crowd but I feel strongly about dB drag limiting their growth potential to only those willing to make a huge investment just to get started in this sport.
Don't wory no flameing from me,I also feel Db Drag's have gotten a little crazy in the street class.Ok, I want to make this point. If a car is in street class the car should be driven to the event,hence street....If a car is in a street class,it should be listened to the way it would be on the street,not 70hz tone's,how about 35hz music. How many car's would this hurt ?.....If a car is in a street class,shouldn't it be able to play for more than 5 second burp's, how about make the street class play the full 30second's to prove it can be "street usable". I just feel that a car for street should be something usable on the street,street max would push the limit's. Super street would be ALL out and xtrem would still be xtrem. I think the classifaction has been twisted and the "do not cross line" pushed to the point where it's now about who has the most money(this sound's like stock car raceing). Why should street A have the same freq limit at xtrem 5+. I think the rule's need a little more thought as to the street class's. Why not make the street class car's the LOUD one's that realy do get used on the street with music. I also find it funny that when I was looking for a good starter class I should run street max 3-4 or super street 1-2NW or super street 3-4. It seem's like street a should be a place to start and work your way up.......... YES, I'm sure there are a lot of people that hate me now.
-------------------- Super Street No Wall -----TeamTjsAudio-------- Posts: 936 | From: Allegan Michigan | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote: originally posted by Pete S: If a car is in a street class,it should be listened to the way it would be on the street,not 70hz tone's,how about 35hz music. How many car's would this hurt ?.....If a car is in a street class,shouldn't it be able to play for more than 5 second burp's, how about make the street class play the full 30second's to prove it can be "street usable". I just feel that a car for street should be something usable on the street
i agree with you on that one but some may not, that is probably the reason why wayne made bass race.
-------------------- Team Notoriously Loud Mafia TWIZTID Posts: 2133 | From: philcampbell, al | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
ok after reading page one, in simple terms if your back glass raises up with the trunk is the vehicle not considered a hatch back, cause thats the way i have always seen it, coarse i don't compete, but is that not understandable
-------------------- Team Notoriously Loud Mafia TWIZTID Posts: 2133 | From: philcampbell, al | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by adam212: ok after reading page one, in simple terms if your back glass raises up with the trunk is the vehicle not considered a hatch back, cause thats the way i have always seen it, coarse i don't compete, but is that not understandable
I totally agree with your opinion. The problem is that my car is not that way but is still judged as a hatchback.
quote:Originally posted by PeteS: Don't wory no flameing from me,I also feel Db Drag's have gotten a little crazy in the street class.Ok, I want to make this point. If a car is in street class the car should be driven to the event,hence street....If a car is in a street class,it should be listened to the way it would be on the street,not 70hz tone's,how about 35hz music. How many car's would this hurt ?.....If a car is in a street class,shouldn't it be able to play for more than 5 second burp's, how about make the street class play the full 30second's to prove it can be "street usable". I just feel that a car for street should be something usable on the street,street max would push the limit's. Super street would be ALL out and xtrem would still be xtrem. I think the classifaction has been twisted and the "do not cross line" pushed to the point where it's now about who has the most money(this sound's like stock car raceing). Why should street A have the same freq limit at xtrem 5+. I think the rule's need a little more thought as to the street class's. Why not make the street class car's the LOUD one's that realy do get used on the street with music. I also find it funny that when I was looking for a good starter class I should run street max 3-4 or super street 1-2NW or super street 3-4. It seem's like street a should be a place to start and work your way up.......... YES, I'm sure there are a lot of people that hate me now.
BTW both of my street cars have been driven to and from every show they have been at. Infact I use both for daily driving.
Topic Closed
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