posted
The dBDRA defines a Trunk Vehicle that has a "permanent" or OEM parcel shelf ( non consumer removable aka normal operation )that divides the storage area from the passenger compartment. A 'trunk' vehicle may incorporate rear seats that are able to be folded down or permanent. Typically, but not in all occasions, these vehicles have a solid or metal door that would open in the rear to give you access to the cargo area. In this situation, the "Wall Test" is not required when determining the classification of a vehicle.
The dBDRA defines a Hatch Vehicle that has a cargo area that is open to the passenger compartment or has a 'consumer removable' panel which would allow access to this area. These vehicles may or may not include a rear seat that folds or is permanent ( non folding ). Typically, but not in all cases, the 'hatch' or door opening on the rear of the vehicle incorporates transparent glass which raises with the vehicle when opened. Hatchback vehicles are subject to the 'Wall Test' when determining the classification of the vehicle.
posted
Wow a real ruling! Can I get a little clearification though. "OEM parcel shelf" Would that be the shelf were the rear window/passenger compartment area meets the trunk area? Typically but not always where the rear speakers are mounted.
BTW The car I had pictured doesn't have one but I am happy to have official way of telling the difference.
So the final check would be if it has a permanent parcel shelf it is a trunk, and if it has a hatch with or without glass that opens into the passenger compartment then it's a hatchback, correct?
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick: Can I get a little clearification though. "OEM parcel shelf" Would that be the shelf were the rear window/passenger compartment area meets the trunk area? Typically but not always where the rear speakers are mounted.
So the final check would be if it has a permanent parcel shelf it is a trunk, and if it has a hatch with or without glass that opens into the passenger compartment then it's a hatchback, correct?
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick: Can I get a little clearification though. "OEM parcel shelf" Would that be the shelf were the rear window/passenger compartment area meets the trunk area? Typically but not always where the rear speakers are mounted.
So the final check would be if it has a permanent parcel shelf it is a trunk, and if it has a hatch with or without glass that opens into the passenger compartment then it's a hatchback, correct?
I have been trying to get some kind of answer since July or aug my original question. In the world of 2 seater cars your definition is clear for a CRX's and Panda's but not for many others. Any chance any certified judge could clearify this reply, this year?
posted
pandas are not 2 seat cars. Your car has already been defined by judges, what is the problem?
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7995 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence - Johnny: pandas are not 2 seat cars. Your car has already been defined by judges, what is the problem?
The judges did rule on my car. I would like to know what rule they based it on. I am assuming it is this definition, which only seems to be here. I have read and reread the rules and can't find it in there.
A certified judge wrote this thread and I would like some clearifacation. I beleive this area is for rules discussion, I have a question about a rule.
Are you a really a part of the rules decision process or were you just certified to do a 3X becuase none of the other judges were available to do the 3x at USACI finals? If you are a certiied judge, why didn't you reply to any of the emails I sent to all of the judges last aug and sept? Most of all if you are part of the rules proccess could you possibly answer my question instead of being an a$$?
I beleive my first question was clear but I will post it yet again
quote:Originally posted by H-O-Alts-Rick: So the final check would be if it has a permanent parcel shelf it is a trunk, and if it has a hatch with or without glass that opens into the passenger compartment then it's a hatchback, correct?
posted
I never received any emails from you, I responded to your pm's that I was not interested in holding any shows at those times because of work and school commitments. It doesnt really matter why I am certified, I am.
As far as your car is concerned, the judges ruled on what they thought was correct after looking at your car. I am not them, so I dont know what they looked at. When I look at your vette, I see a hatchback because of the way it is setup. To me, a trunk has something that divides it from the passenger compartment, and it also has a permanent rear deck. Your car has neither.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7995 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence - Johnny: I never received any emails from you, I responded to your pm's that I was not interested in holding any shows at those times because of work and school commitments. It doesnt really matter why I am certified, I am.
As far as your car is concerned, the judges ruled on what they thought was correct after looking at your car. I am not them, so I dont know what they looked at. When I look at your vette, I see a hatchback because of the way it is setup. To me, a trunk has something that divides it from the passenger compartment, and it also has a permanent rear deck. Your car has neither.
I emailed all of the certfied judges using the link found on this forum.
Your opinion has been received but I am looking for a clearifaction to a rule not an opinion. In my opinion and by every definition I have found anywhere a hatchback vehicle has a hatch in the back and a trunk is the main cargo area in a vehicle. Logically almost all vehicles have a trunk(including hatchbacks) but only some have a hatchback.I guess thats not the case either. If dB Drag doesn't define it that way thats fine. I would like a clear way to tell them apart. All I want is someway that is a clear way to tell them apart.
For the record my car does have a permanent rear deck/parcell shelf, it's exactly where you would expect to find it also. It is located between the trunk and back window. If dB Drag is using that as a definition then my car is legal as long as the box stays below that shelf,correct? Basically thats 3 inch shorter then USACI but still a logical definition.
When did you look at the interior of my car and determine it doesn't have a permanent rear deck?
posted
Ok I am lost can someone bring me up to speed....I dont know the perpous of this thread....i though box high was bassed on the front window line.....has something changed?
posted
Box height is determined by the window line only in hatchbacks not trunk cars. You have worked on my car...Does it have a hatchback? Do you remember the rear deck?
This is a couple of really crappy pictures but they do show the rear deck. It is larger then it looks, we thought about using it to mount amps on, and it is most definatly permanent
This is not mine but has the same deck as mine and shows it pretty clearly.
posted
Rick, there's a simple answer here. Your car has a "rear deck" but it is not meant to divide the passenger compartment and the cargo area. If that "rear deck" had a storage area behind it, then you could build up to the height of the rear deck assuming the box was in the storage area. As you're not using that as a "trunk car", but instead a hatchback style install then you must comply with the hatchback rules.
-------------------- Team Shedluv Team Sweep Team Kicker Team JBL
posted
Well rick its not a crx so you know the rules wont conform to you. lol To me a hatch back has to have a hatch...hence the hatch part of the term. Good luck rick...cause the way steve defined it ures is a hatch back.....just break down and buy a crx like everyone has to do since the rules seem to conform to that car. Even if its not intenstional(spell check). I still dont understan why crx's can have the rear hatch cover taken out. O i know why cause then crx's wouldnt work lol. I look at the hatch cover as the same as seats in a van in streat...usuer removable. But you can't take the seats out. The crx will always rules street in the USA unless the rules change alot. Just my 2 cents.
posted
It is permitted to take hatch covers out in other cars, why not the crx? You can take out a 3rd row seat in a van or SUV, but not a 2nd row. You cant push the box past that seat anyways so it doesnt matter too much.
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 7995 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thats my point johnny. You cant take out the second row even though its user removable and slide the box there cause of the sliding side door and intent blah blah blah. But in a crx u can put a boxe over the "oem stoarage compartment" so you cant get in it and take the hatch cover off also. Not trying to pick a fight or get this off subject but anyone even the judges who have been around for a few years can see where the rules have tented to acomendate the crx and handicap all other vech. that have got close to them. Like i said before It might of not been on perpous but thats where its ened up. Buy a crx or try to import a panda or dont plan on winning finals.
posted
By the way rick I agree with the others you need to stay below the front window line. After I though about it. I still say it would make a sick street a car even though its basicaly the toughest street class.
quote:Originally posted by The WooferWagon: By the way rick I agree with the others you need to stay below the front window line. After I though about it. I still say it would make a sick street a car even though its basicaly the toughest street class.
Topic Closed
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