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hmm...noone has mentioned xtant. I think their amps are exceptionally clean. Also, I had an Eclipse 3242 and I found it to be a very transparent amp aswell. -Jesse
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what about a tube amp? as for all the nonbeleivers (-tech man ) think about it for a minute...there are two factors here, amplitude, and frequency. two amps (reguardless of size) putting out the SAME power and not clipping...leaves frequency as the deciding factor. I'm sure there is differences betwen amps in frequency reproduction but they are so small(i'm not sure of actual amplifier tolerances and such) that a human ear can't tell the difference....consistantly. so why do we spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on amps......Because we're all nuts!!! we all love music!! and it gives us peace of mind knowing that our amps can light a small city and the knowing that you need an ccilliscope to spot a flaw in output.
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Dukk, I am interested in hearing your definition of "sound", because correct me if I'm wrong But I believe Richard Clark stated that there was no difference in "Focus, liquidity, etc.." not overall sound.
Oh ya, and what do I like as an amp? I think anything that replicates music is a beautifull thing..
Things that I miss? The OLD Phase Linear amps (still have a Turbo 150) the OLD proton amps.. (got one of those too) and of course.. Linear Power 5002IQ (and yes, I have one of those also)
peace..
------------------ Earthquake 200DHC 2 JL 18w6's @ 1.5 Ohms Linear Power LP50 1 set 6x9's 3 sets of somponents 86 mustang SVO pentium 200 w/indash display no HU, just mp3 + FM tuner card. never SPL'd, not interseted in competing.. - matt
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It's distortion that gives away a lesser amp. You put two high quality amps in front of me and keep them out of clipping and I wont be able to tell them apart. Lesser amps suffer from crossover distorion (and I don't mean the high pass low pass thing), harmonic distortion, sometimes power supply noise distorting the output and many other colorations of the sound.
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Sound it the impression we get when pressure waves move our eardrums. The OVERALL experience. I'm not going to argue this anymore but they all SOUND the same. Do you think I LIKE saying that a Targa will sound the same as an RF if kept from clipping?? NO, but it does...
------------------ Blow your mind - PORT your box!
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well ok what do you think of eclipse 4 channel amps distortion wise? considering i want to replace my soundstream ref 300 with a four channel amp to power my components actively what 4 channel amps would you recommend?
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Dukk-Sorry, I didnt check this post lately. And yeah, I have thought about takin him up on the offer. All I could do is fail, right? And I have only done this once, on our own sound board and went 3 for 3. You gotta know the equipment your testing. Zapco amps sound totally different than PG. And who says Clark's "comparison" isn't rigged in some way? He is also now offering a 6 figure job to the person that can tell the difference in amps.
------------------ Thanx- Jon Dailey teamROCS #071
Posts: 131 | From: Frankfort, KY | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
most people CAN tell differences in amplifiers, as for Clark's challange i think that for those of you that think that most people can not tell a difference should more carefully read the conditions that surround this challange of his. there is a lot of equipment in-line such as blind double switching and electronic 1/10db corrective equalization to mention a few. and further more under the conditions that apply to his challange most people could not tell difference's. in other words the man would be a fool to offer a challange such as this with out the conditions that apply to it. put the amps up head to head and without clipping them while also eliminating all the crap in-line between the source unit and the amplifiers and i think that most people would be able to tell the differences of amplifiers.....IMO. also i would like to add that IMO Clark's challange might be better understood if it was a little clearer in that the challange is actually for someone to be able to tell the differences of inability of clark's system to MASK or CORRECT the differences in amplifiers.
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[This message has been edited by ecm_3 (edited 04-26-2000).]
[This message has been edited by ecm_3 (edited 04-26-2000).]
[This message has been edited by ecm_3 (edited 04-26-2000).]
Posts: 122 | From: St.Louis, MO | Registered: Feb 2000
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Here it is: I took the test as delivered by Gary Springgay from RF. He performed it to Richards recommendations. The entire complement of equipment included a source unit, an ABX box (more on that in a munute), a pair of amps, and a set of speakers. After the test we were all free to inspect the setup for any hocus pocus. An ABX box is a device developed by David Levy (of DLC). It has two sets of inputs and one set of outputs. The operator has control of switching between A and B and then selecting X. Upon selecting X the unit will randomly pick either A or B as the output. This output is NOT displayed to the operator but is kept in memory for retrieval later. Generally, you get to hear amp A, then amp B, then amp X. At this time you choose which amp you think is playing and write it down. At the end of the test (20 cycles in my case) the machine recalls all of the X values in order for you to check against. Pretty simple. The speakers were a nice set of towers and the music was a decently rendered jazz CD - not the elavator music some have hinted at.
The test was very straightforward, had no special processors, and used real music. And don't even suggest that Gary pulled a fast one. That could get ugly. Try actually READING the challenge...
A hundred or so guys were tested. Many with a lot of time in the business. All failed morbidly.
Why am I even typing this? All you people are obviously golden eared. My comrades and I are all tone deaf. BUT none of you have gone yet. Man if someone was obviously GIVING me 10 large I would have gone already...
You Will Fail.
------------------ Blow your mind - PORT your box!
quote:Originally posted by Mousavi: What would be your #1 SQ amp? Lets say you will be powering Focal or Dynaudio components.
I don't know if you can get a hold of the Swedish/English brand: DLS Genesis over in the States. They seem to win every SoundQuality contest there is up here in Sweden and alot of competitions around Europe to..
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Also, here is a story witch proves that Dukk, as usual, is 100% right:
After I read Dukk’s first post on this matter, I was dieing to take the big test for my self. Any way, I went to my friends shop and we spend close to 10 hours setting everything up perfectly. We were using a full system containing a Nak HU, 2 RF DVC 12s , MBQ components, and the amps were a McIntosh MC440m, Xtreme and the RF 800a2. we decided that we didn’t want set up the gain, crossovers, and the equalizers ourselves so that we would have our ears fresh for the test, we had the installers do it for us. So anyways, after about10 hours of straight out sweating over this thing, we each sat down and had the installers switch amps every 10 seconds or so, while we tried to figure out what amp s playing. We did this for about 15 minutes, and had about 50 guesses on our papers. And guess what, I was wrong over 75% of the time while my friend was wrong, over 90% of the time! We thought to our selves, maybe its late at night and we’re just tired, so we went and got some sleep. The next day, we too the test 4 more times, FAILED EVERY SINGLE ONE!! Finally, I gave up and decided that I was never going to question Dukk’s word again”.”
Ss…go ahead, take the test…but when you fail, promise to tell us about it, OK?
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[This message has been edited by Mousavi (edited 05-02-2000).]
Posts: 381 | From: Silicon ValleyR A N G E R O V I N G ! | Registered: Jan 2000
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I have always been partial to Linear Power although now I running Kicker ZRs and I'm fairly happy with them. I have used LP, Kicker, USamps, Alpine, Audio Art, Autotek, Pioneer, eclipse, and a bunch others and sceery enough the nicest sound I have ever heard came from an old style Blade amp called a G5. I sold the amps a while back and I've been kicking myself every since. They made a couple modles of G5s mine where some of the first couple made.
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Posts: 17 | From: Clayton, New York | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I had a pretty cool amp that I sold to a friend of mine. It is a BLAUPUNKT V7000. The amp is a 7ch model, 4x40watts & 2x100watts & 1x20watts. This amp had some pro audio type circuitry, HUSH(Noise reduction) and THDL(anti-clipping), both developed by Rocktron Pro Audio. The amp is as clear as a bell and very quiet during soft musical passages. One very cool thing....The amps main channels develop more power when the sub channels are driven hard. Also cool, at max volumes the amp is pretty clean as the distortion limiting circuitry kicks in. This is a very nice amp. In a Feb. 95 C.A.&.E. test this amp (overall) beat out a McIntosh MC440, a a/d/s 850MX, a Blade SE-56, a Audio Art 340.6XE, and a Earthquake PA-6050C.
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Posts: 118 | From: Detroit, MI | Registered: Feb 2000
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Hey Dukk, it's all good! WE know what the real deal is on the amplifiers! I dont care whos name is on it anymore, if it's got the balls to deliver the juice without fizzling out, has a good warranty, and runs on 12V, I'm there! Of course, I do still have my preferences, dont get me wrong, I will continue to pay a little (to a lot) more for my favorite brand, but I know sonically, I wont hear a difference, as long as it's kept out of clipping!!!
------------------ Sometimes the majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.
Use your ears to judge components, NOT your wallet! K.I.S.S.
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