posted
The only way to make street fair is to limit power, and limit the power at the subwoofer/amp output with a certified dB Drag Watt meter. By limiting the end result this leaves the competitor with much more options as far as product and qty. Of couse you might be required to make a spot for the power to be measured at worlds.
For those who will cry that this just isn't an option.....Its not anymore difficult than measuring voltage at the amps during the run.
For 3 years I have said this and here I am again...
Note to Wayne:Very good idea and I bet you sell a ton of these if you design and market them.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig
-Saskatchewan dB Drag event promoter Posts: 1961 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Thought I should clarify that when I say limit power. I don't mean physically put something in the audio signal path. Just have penalties in place so that when you do go over the given limit you are dealt with under whatever rule is set forth.
This way you don't rely on manufacture to rate amps, because they can't lie about power output. If they did, who cares it will get measured in the lanes anyway.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig
-Saskatchewan dB Drag event promoter Posts: 1961 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I didn't say DQ if you went over thats not for me to decide. This is and will remain the only way to accuratly compare systems that are "theoretically" supposed to be of similar power. Theres no need to screem DQ and its not our place to jump to conclusions on the outcome.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig
-Saskatchewan dB Drag event promoter Posts: 1961 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
dbDrag is getting worse and worse. You guys be comin up with some stupid ideas
-------------------- IASCA STOCK 3 WORLD RECORD HOLDER 157.3 LOUDEST STREET VEHICLE THE WEST COAST EVER HAD!!!! Posts: 925 | From: Gardena, Ca | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Hey people were DQed when their enclosure vibrated past the door jamb. Obvously when your box is past the door jamb you gain 3dB!
the rules are very clear on that. enclosures can NOT be in front of the b pillars.
they are also very clear that your box may not move forward.
it would not have been hard to keep a box from moving.
2 screws is all it takes.
but... back on topic...
there is an unreal amount of crying in street.. i am honestly amazed at the childish bickering in street a-c
thank god im moving out of street next year.
why ..... i dont like the rules.. but rather than whine and cry about them.. ill build my car to fit a different class. if that means losing all season. so be it. at least my car will fit the class its in. and im gonna have fun.
id rather have fun and lose... than to be an ass, and win.
-------------------- Team Maxxsonics . Hooker Audio . Ohio Generator . Kinetik Power Maxxsonics Team Captain 2005 WF Street Max 1-2 6th place 2006 WF Street Max 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 3rd w/315 points : SPLMax Competitor of the Year 2007 Usaci State Records : Mod 2001-4000 : Mod 4000-up : Port Wars Open : Street Beat 4 2007 Top U.S. SM 1-2 certified : WF Street Max 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 9th w/215 points 2008 Sold the truck and took a break to enjoy the hobby. 2009 Coming out strong in bass race with the minitruck.
posted
I was just offering an option, I know people don't like competing with manufactures for advertizing space(1-3 place) at finals.
Untill manufactures are prohibited to give product to competitors in street class this will never end. The problem begins and ends at the product supplier.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig
-Saskatchewan dB Drag event promoter Posts: 1961 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Why not have a points allocation, the higher the power used the lower the points weighting on the run? I like the idea Don...
Posts: 370 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by HISPL: Why not have a points allocation, the higher the power used the lower the points weighting on the run? I like the idea Don...
This is dB Drag.
Its not "scoring points" Drag.
You dont see many racing cars carrying extra weights cos they have a quick car, or a good driver.
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC - Team RE - Team DD Posts: 2956 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by HISPL: Why not have a points allocation, the higher the power used the lower the points weighting on the run? I like the idea Don...
Handicap class?
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio
quote:Originally posted by HISPL: Why not have a points allocation, the higher the power used the lower the points weighting on the run? I like the idea Don...
This is dB Drag.
Its not "scoring points" Drag.
You dont see many racing cars carrying extra weights cos they have a quick car, or a good driver.
No but in real drag racing you do have delayed starting due to qualifing run times. You also have "bracket racing" where if you break out of a time bracket you get DQ'd.
Craig
-------------------- Posts: 1390 | From: Clayton, NC USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
That is a good idea, but a far more simple way is to limit the battery amount/size, which is done already. You can only get so much power out of a batt.
Why?
This is a market driven sport, plain and simple. If you don't like it, it's not for you. Keep the street rules the same with the exception of letting people use as many amps as they like.
quote:Originally posted by HISPL: Why not have a points allocation, the higher the power used the lower the points weighting on the run? I like the idea Don...
This is dB Drag.
Its not "scoring points" Drag.
You dont see many racing cars carrying extra weights cos they have a quick car, or a good driver.
Well you guys probably never have seen Australian Touring Cars racing but in the early 1990s Nissan entered the Skyline GTR R32.
After the rookie season the rules were changed to stop the cars from dominating the championship, inlet restrictors, restricted boost xtra weight etc the 2nd season out they still won by the third season about 400kg of weight had been added to the vehicles.
This helped to emphasise how good the drivers were/are rather than the vehicle.
What I'm trying to get accross is rather than highlight how good someones equipment is in these classes why not emphasise how good their install is.
If you want beginners who have limited financial capacity to do well in these classes then this should be something to considder. (I assume that Street Class was designed to be an entry level in the sport)
If people want to display their ability to do high numbers and want to push the envelope in terms of outright SPL they maybe should considder another class and leave street class to the beginers.
Just my opinion on this one...
Posts: 370 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I think that TRUE power limits are the only way you can make it completely fair. Then it would be based almost all upon the install. Although it would probably piss off the companies manufacturing these extreme power amps at huge costs. This sport is at least in my view based on who has the deeper pockets and will remain that way until a time when everything is legitimately documented and proven to due what it states it will. Then again it’s just an opinion and I've only been following this sport since the early 90's. Personally I liked it back when people were only in the 150's like the Boss Cannon and could still do what a car stereo should play music, now it seems that even these so-called street vehicles are setup to just burp a single freq. That pretty much goes against my personal view of what those classes were setup to be. Then again what do I know?
The analogy of the race car adding weight doesn't work so well look up Sox&Martin and how they keep getting screwed around because their hemi powered car was killing the competition. Just a thought.
-------------------- Excessive Amperage 05 gto tc 4hp 12's Colossus II DEAF SQuAD NoRtH Audiophyle is a THIEF TC Sounds in all my rides Posts: 1630 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by dB Don: The only way to make street fair is to limit power, and limit the power at the subwoofer/amp output with a certified dB Drag Watt meter. By limiting the end result this leaves the competitor with much more options as far as product and qty. Of couse you might be required to make a spot for the power to be measured at worlds.
For those who will cry that this just isn't an option.....Its not anymore difficult than measuring voltage at the amps during the run.
For 3 years I have said this and here I am again...
Note to Wayne:Very good idea and I bet you sell a ton of these if you design and market them.
I completely agree with you... 110%.
If there were some reasonable power restrictions I would DEFINITELY do dbdrag. Otherwise, I won't even bother, and I'm sure I speak for a great number of people when I say DBdrag is just too dam expensive.
DBdrag is all about who has the deepest pockets for sure... and thats just boring.
Not to say those who win now would lose if the power field was more level... I'm sure they would just work more on the install.... but flat out, if you have 2-3x the power of someone else, you have an advantage... limiting battery doesnt do a heck of alot, as was shown at finals. You can still get *significant* power from one battery... more power than most people could ever afford.
It wouldnt be difficult... as was said - as easy as hooking up the voltmeter.
posted
everyone is saying to set a power limit, why not just LIFT the amp limit....your power is still restricted by the battery, and lets see...cost on a gti 6000 is what 3500? You could get almost 12 used BMF 1000ds for that, and are they gonna work right off of 1 battery?
I'm not trying to take anything away from anyone that got loud in any street class, i know how hard it is and respect every one of you, i did the same thing before finals, went out and bought a t3000 trying to be competitive...I say maybe let A have 1 battery, B have 2, and C have 3....then not only would everyone be happy, but the people that daily drive with say 2 jbl 1200.1s on 2 10s can also compete in street A
but thats just my idea.....
-------------------- Posts: 6868 | From: Russellville AL | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
LOL this idea will never fly but I try each year anyway. I could teach a monkey to test power on an amp(if I had a monkey!) So testing the power isn't an issue.
Maybe after a few more years and a 20 page street class rule book it might happen, ya never know.
-------------------- -Donald Hebig
-Saskatchewan dB Drag event promoter Posts: 1961 | From: Borden, Saskatchewan. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by dB Don: LOL this idea will never fly but I try each year anyway. I could teach a monkey to test power on an amp(if I had a monkey!) So testing the power isn't an issue.
Maybe after a few more years and a 20 page street class rule book it might happen, ya never know.
Your probably right... it would take an act of god for this to actually go through.
But it only makes sense... take the advantage away from the deep pockets and give it to the best installers.
posted
Could it be because the time involved in doing this would extend the length of the shows when people already complain about not being able to get back on the road soon enough. Power ratings are a whole seperate mess of their own, look at the bitching going on in usaci.
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