posted
All I know is these SS and extreme cars are what get the beginners started. When the hear a car about rip the doors of a car and everything is about to come off the car. That makes them want to do it. So they can be the one pushing the button and geting the responce that they did the first time the saw or heard it. No they are not going to go out and buid one but its the start of there addiction. My first system I ever built was 16 10s in a honda civic. My 2nd car was an Extreme. But it was seeing Loveless and some other big cars that made me want to do it.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: There should be reason though for people to move up.
If YOU or anyone else goes to finals in Street more than once you are ROBBING another "beginner" of the same oppertunity. You taking up that spot bumped him. Move over, step up, and actually help the beginners have a shot. You talk a good game about helping new competitors but I'm sure you wouldn't give up a spot at finals for soeone who hasn't been yet.
NeillBarber
What happened WHEN the move up rule was in effect? Remember those years? Maybe it's you that is dense.
Second, why does a competitor THAT DOES NOT COMPETE IN STREET feel the need to call it a beginner class? (Even though YOU competed in it YOURSELF at the start of the year, maybe it was YOU that 'robbed' a newbie out of a trophy)
Im just as passionate about my gear as you are yours. I stay in street because, A) Im not about to build a wall and hinder my car's performance, saftey, etc. and, B) because street is a class which I actually enjoy competing in. My car is driven to and from EVERY show.
Why should any street competitor HAVE to give up street? Maybe you should HAVE to give up SS 1-2 and go in Extreme.
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio Posts: 6157 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000
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Guys , take a step back and think about it : in the beginning of Your car audio intrest ( ME included ) what was the thing that gived you the feeling of : Yeah that i like ... : All those freaking Demo cars in the days , the crazy installs , the full of subs playing low and loud cars , etc. .... and thats All over the globe the same .
It wasnt that you could - or can - duplicate that , but it turned you on to car audio and letted you starting buying that first sub and amp .
That is what people gets in to it , that first step of getting the car audio "virus"
Thats why the attention of these classes may not go away or putted in a corner . ( or ... can be rushed at the last 30 minutes of a show if they fall out of time )
And , i like to ad : i also play in extreme , and i can say : no sponsoring , just some discount here and there , its Big fun with the car , but it costs $$$ alot , not to mention our rebuildings we did this year .
posted
the alternative to keep street people is to have pro street. drop no wall extreme 1, and the street max classes (these are dead classes)and have prostreet. it is for anyone who has been a top 8 or what not at world finals in street.
posted
it is not a move up rule btw, it is a you can't compete with that vehicle the following year rule in street. so buy another crx or explorer and put it in... if you are going to drag your heels and bring dbdrag down, then you will spend money doing it.
posted
i say just change the amp rule in street classes. with the kind of amps out now. we should be able to use any amp we can get to work.. enforce a batt limit and call it a day.
quote:Originally posted by VegaS10: So, you want more SS and Extreme classes?
There we're 54 certified extreme vehciles in '04.
Fifty four.
Well over 330 in the street classes.
So, we should cater to the 54 extreme vehicles? I mean, I guess I just don't get it. It's written all over the place where the money is...
Question go back 5 year and look at the number of extreme cars as related to the number of classes. to be competitive you needed a extreme car and people didn't have a prob building them heck there was 3, yup three 9+ classes all of them where full classes back then Why are they no longer all these cars? Maybe there class went away? Quick question if street is made for new competitor. Why do the same 4 cars/ temas win the street class every year.
posted
Neil- I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I applaud you for saying it and I hope that the right people are thinking for themselves.
-------------------- John & Kara Hellemn 2x dB Drag World Champions 2x MECA World Champions 1x IdBL World Champions Posts: 1043 | From: Ada,OH | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by J_P: Question go back 5 year and look at the number of extreme cars as related to the number of classes. to be competitive you needed a extreme car and people didn't have a prob building them heck there was 3, yup three 9+ classes all of them where full classes back then Why are they no longer all these cars? Maybe there class went away?
It's called evolution. People get the same enjoyment out of competing in street as they do extreme. But, instead of buying a trailer, truck, etc. they just drive the car to the show.
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio Posts: 6157 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
why is there so much hostility and unwillingness to understand whats being said?
-------------------- Team Maxxsonics . Kinetik Power Maxxsonics Team Captain 2005 WF SM 1-2 6th place 2006 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 3rd w/315 points : SPLMax Competitor of the Year. 2007 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 9th w/215 points : Top U.S. SM 1-2 certified score. 2007 Usaci State Records : Mod 2001-4000 : Mod 4000-up : Port Wars Open : Street Beat 4. 2008 Sold the nissan and took a break to build a new minitruck. 2009 Coming back with Bass Race & Psychlone in the minitruck.
posted
I agree lets just do away with Street, that way all the extreme guys will be happy at their 2 person 3x shows, who needs us anyway right. lol, you guys really are serious is the sad part. The thing is all the street guys won't die, they'll just leave dbdrag and go somewhere else where there are like 11 street classes(by the way, these organizations are thriving and with only 3 super street and extreme classes each lol) I can't wait to see the number difference for finals attendance. Dbdrag on the other hand will die unless they see this trend and act accordingly. Its not brain surgury to me, I just don't understand where the hold up is. O well I guess I'm jsut a street guy, I don't know ****.
-------------------- KCG Team Maxxsonics Posts: 1425 | From: Centralia, IL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Drop 3 classes to make room for 1 That makes no sence.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
The last two posts are again not reading what is said.
One MOre time. I AM ASKING THE CLASSES BE LEFT ALONE!!
Geez try to read before making stetemants regarding "You said get rid of all the street classes." Who the hell said that?
What I said was when there are payouts if any at all the majority should go to the higher classes. Making it an incentive to build and drag the things around.
ENOUGHT WITH THE "Neill HATES STREET BS." I have 3 street cars here in Tallahassee.
NeillBarber
PS. Thanks John and too all the others who are catching on to my intent.
posted
I'm not saying leave the classes alone, I'm saying make a class for every competitor so we don't have to bring home 2nd place trophys anymore.
2 people per class is way to much on the West Side, why beat around the Bush, lets make it real. One class per competitor, this is the direction of dB Drag anyhow.
It's called evolution. People get the same enjoyment out of competing in street as they do extreme.
I competed in both extreme and street at finals this year and in my opinion, thats the most ignorant comment i have ever heard.
Street is 95% "who can buy the biggest amp" Extreme is 95% "install and creativity"
here are some more interesting threads on this subject from "back in tha day" . Seems like we have the same arguements every year and it gets us absolutely nowhere.
quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: When you are discussing the future of the sport revenue from promotors, spectators, and corporate sponsors thakes presidence over entry fee's from competitors.
ME-> Ok, but right now, it seems fewer companies are putting the $ out to the organization. There were several empty booths, less sponsorship, and fewer shows.
No one will show up and pay an admission fee to see bunch of 2-12 CRX's or anyother car for that matter. They can see that at home.
ME-> Hot Imports Night filled the Charlotte Merchandise Mart a few months ago. It was damn near impossible to walk around. I'm pretty sure some kids got motivated to go and do something to mom's accord from that show.
I am not for combining classes. Unless its street.
ME-> You've said several times in this thread you want to leave the classes alone?
I am in favor of adding incentive (money and prizes) to the Extreme division. Therefore encouraging more of them to be built. Also incentive at large events for Super street classes.
ME-> Ok, sounds cool.
Cash payouts should be LARGER for the higher divisions.
ME-> Because you spent more money? No one made you go and put a bulet proof windsheild in your astro van.
Street should not get the same (if any) payout as Super street or Extreme.
ME-> Once again...why not? This is where the consumers are.
Extreme should get money and prizes FIRST!!!
ME-> Agreed, but only if other classes get $ as well.
These large and overpowering stereos are what draws poeple to the events and gets them to spend their money.
ME-> True, but how many kids can afford this?
The reform that is needed is to promote and encourage the building of larger more elaborate stereos. Not encouraging the construction of smaller and smaller classes.
ME-> Once again, smaller classes is where the consumers are.
Next year I can see people asking for a 1-8" sealed box class BC 2-12's and a ported box are too expensive.
ME-> Maybe not to that extreme, but, if the rules need to be adjusted, then they should be adjusted.
NeillBarber
I've gone through sentence by sentence. I have re-read your post and responded to every sentence.
I would like to see larger and more elaborate systems at shows as well. Nothing is cooler than watcing the crowd gather around a huge extreme car. I watched/helped Paul Nelson all through the 2002 season, I know what ya mean man, really I do.
But, right now the economy sucks and times have changed.
Local shows here (not sure of your area) have full street brackets. Very few SS brackets, and maybe 1 or 2 extreme vehicles. I don't see any need to tweak the rules further.
Personally, I think the rules and classes are fine. I plan on doing street next year, hopefully I can get the time and money to finally get this going. I'll adjust my system as the rules become available.
Add all the classes you want. Whatever it takes to get more people to shows...do it. But, i think you need to look at the stats fromt he last year and see where the consumer is going, and gear towards them.
There are always going to be your Neil barbers, Jay Lovelaces, Mike Hughes, Jimmy Zimmerman's, etc who will have amazing vehicles capable of shaking the earth. And some kids will move from Hondas to Astro's. It's evolution. Some will fall off, and some will be hooked for life.
I admire and respect ANYONE who takes the time and effort to build something like that. I wish I had the money and time to do it. I got the knowledge and a great team of people to work with, but it just is'nt in the cards this year.
So, for now, I got to settle for a crx. Just the way it is right now, and there are alot of folks like me.
Folks will move up. But right now, it's just hard on alot of folks, so we need to accomodate, appreciate and help everyone we can get.
posted
Neil I was refering to the person that said to drop ss n-w, sm , and Extreme 1. to make room for Pro Street. I like the classes there are. But I would like to see Mini, and SS 1 brought in. Who in Db Drag runs 1 woofer in SS1-2?? There are alot of people that I know of that would love to see this class come. So why not bring it.Its as simple as saying ok lets have SS1 and st mini. no rule changes just add them and see if it works if it dosent drop them.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by orphan440: I agree lets just do away with Street, that way all the extreme guys will be happy at their 2 person 3x shows, who needs us anyway right. lol, you guys really are serious is the sad part. The thing is all the street guys won't die, they'll just leave dbdrag and go somewhere else where there are like 11 street classes(by the way, these organizations are thriving and with only 3 super street and extreme classes each lol) I can't wait to see the number difference for finals attendance. Dbdrag on the other hand will die unless they see this trend and act accordingly. Its not brain surgury to me, I just don't understand where the hold up is. O well I guess I'm jsut a street guy, I don't know ****.
With how the rules are looking and what I have heard, I think most or all street competitors will take their business elsewhere. That includes me
-------------------- IASCA STOCK 3 WORLD RECORD HOLDER 157.3 LOUDEST STREET VEHICLE THE WEST COAST EVER HAD!!!! Posts: 925 | From: Gardena, Ca | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I agree with Chad all the way. Street is the big money maker for db Drag. Check out how much more competitors were in street as oppose to other classes.
-------------------- IASCA STOCK 3 WORLD RECORD HOLDER 157.3 LOUDEST STREET VEHICLE THE WEST COAST EVER HAD!!!! Posts: 925 | From: Gardena, Ca | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
here is the point alot of people are missing. How many companies advertize 152db street A. Not very many they advertize 175DB. If we do away with the higher classes we will also do away with alot of the factor support.
All that is trying to be said here post is let's motivate people to build bigger systems. I have not seen anywhere in this post that says do away with street. Street is a great class but Extreme is what draws a crowd, extreme is what companies use to advertise. Let's keep the classes the same(or add ss1) and just work on a few of the rules that need to be ajusted. The only rules i have heard that even need to be ajusted are street rules. So let's all focus making the few ajustments that are need in street and get building for next year
sorry if this don't make sence i am on alot of pain killers
posted
So thats how I make sence? Send everyone pain killers.
Any who. Again I have never stated that kids will go out and buy Astro vans and build walls. These ststens only stimulate their interest and get them to get started with their systems. Which would most likely fall into the street classes. Thats why I do not want any class changes.
All I have asked for is incentive to stimulate the growth of the larger classes therefore stimulating the interest of beginnners which in turn bring more cars and customer in regardless of class or system type.
But the prizes(if any)should go into the larger classes and coax long term competitors back into them. Bringing their competitor numbers up. Which stimulates the whole circle all over again.
NeillBarber
PS. Sorry Billy I misunderstood who you were talking to and what you were saying.
quote:Originally posted by boommerextreme: Drop 3 classes to make room for 1 That makes no sence.
that is the way it used to be... extreme 1 turnouts are jokes, no wall keep going down hill every year... there are wayyyyyyy too many classes in dbdrag. street max was supposed to be a place for the big street people who have had their vehicles for 5 years to compete in, that did not work, get rid of it. 2003 classes - 9+ classes and add a prostreet for WF placing street VEHICLES. get rid of extreme 1 and possibly no wall. it is the best solution for dbdrag, there is absolutely no bias in this. very few can say this.
posted
Why not get rid of your class since there are to many classes. Extreme 1 filled there brackets and 2 others left out. other classes didnt. go and get your fact before you talk about dropping classes.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
neil this is a pointless discussion anymore, if people can only read what they choose to read, and imagine sentances as they go along... dont even bother.
question for extreme competitors....
does extreme HAVE to be 2 bajillionjigawaats of power?
i mean.. if i were to attempt extreme with my 4 door trunk.. would be a waste of my time, if im not willing to put 400 grand into it?
i ask because i DRIVE my car.. its my daily car.. i like music. all music. and i like an install to LOOK nice, and sound good.
im more concerned with having a sweet looking install, than i am with posting 170db numbers.
but, i also enjoy competing.
the way i have my car setup now.. for a dily driver, i get pushed out of the street classes due to small petty rules. this puts me into ssnw.. but again if i set my car up the way i want to.. i wouldnt qaulify for that class either.
but.. would i simply be wasting my time, and make a mockery of extreme, if i didnt put hundreds of thousands of dollars into it?
im trying VERY HARD to find a suitable class for next year.. and if i dont, i'll be moving over to mecca, as my car does fit thier rules..
anyway, id like some input from extreme competitors on this.
-------------------- Team Maxxsonics . Kinetik Power Maxxsonics Team Captain 2005 WF SM 1-2 6th place 2006 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 3rd w/315 points : SPLMax Competitor of the Year. 2007 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 9th w/215 points : Top U.S. SM 1-2 certified score. 2007 Usaci State Records : Mod 2001-4000 : Mod 4000-up : Port Wars Open : Street Beat 4. 2008 Sold the nissan and took a break to build a new minitruck. 2009 Coming back with Bass Race & Psychlone in the minitruck.
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