quote:Originally posted by J_P: Ok Quick math.. true there might be 30 st cars and only four ss+extreme cars lets see 30x price of 2 12s 400, price of amp 600 for a total sale of 1000 of a manufactures product or 30000 total to manufactures. take those 4 extreme or ss cars lets say 4 15s that go for 700 a peice. add there atleast 4 amps at 1000 for a total of 27000+, granted this is just an example. and equipment amount and prices may very.
How many extreme cars that compete buy the equipment in the first place? Now, how street cars picked up amps and subs from the dealer to compete. Please.
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio Posts: 6144 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: Street class nor any other class for that matter are the largest "money makers" for dbDRAG.
Sponsors are "money makers". Shops, manufacturers, and corporate logos (pepsi) are the big deal.
What brings these to the table at large events? Consumers. Or rather the crowd of spectators that come out to see the products and competitors at these events. Spectators (unless previously exposed) do not know OR CARE what the classes or rules are. They come out and spend their MONEY to see LARGE ELABORATE systems. Not poopbox cars with wire all over the place and a liquid nail covered box with 2-12's and an aero port sticking out of it.
Spectators are not required to pay an entry fee at 95% of the shows. Only certain events and a lot of times to see the Nopi car show and races.
Nice of you to show your true feeling for Street cars.
Also, would like to add, how many spectators, new competitors look at an extreme vehicle and think, hmmm I could duplicate that. Not many want to purchase 18" woofers, multiple strappable amps, multiple batteries, and multiple alternators. Now, how many spectators, new competitors look at a street car and think, hmmm two twelves, two amps, and a box I could probably do that.
Most spectators would walk past my Rex to see Zimmerman's van, but which vehicle will the spectator try to duplicate? Which will they spend thier money on to duplicate?
posted
[/qb][/QUOTE]How many extreme cars that compete buy the equipment in the first place? Now, how street cars picked up amps and subs from the dealer to compete. Please. [/QB][/QUOTE] Well mabe you need to talk to alot of the EXTREME people I paid for all of my stuff ever since I have been doing this. I just got help on the amps right before Finals. My team mate also runs Extreme and dosent get any help. Alot of people just take for granted just because we have all these crazy setups that we are sponcered. 6,000 in enclosed trailer, 10,000 in tow vehicle, car,amps,woofer, concrete, mdf, steel, batts if I had to buy them, paint, bondo, resin, About 30,000 dollars. Yes I bought all my stuff from local retailers and a shop here in town is who is on the back of my car I dont work there.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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Hey dude, simply put, anyone dogging the Street class is going to get a response from a Street competitor. I am EVERY bit as passionate about my car and my class, as ANY extreme competitor. I truly feel that no new rules should come for 2005. I could also care less or more or less classes are added. The Street guys here having been hearing for YEARS how, we need a move up rule, get rid of Street at finals, too many street classes, etc. I personally think if a member does not compete in Street, then they have no right to respond on what Street needs. Street does just fine own it's on.
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio Posts: 6144 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: I am in favor of adding incentive (money and prizes) to the Extreme division. Therefore encouraging more of them to be built. Also incentive at large events for Super street classes. Cash payouts should be LARGER for the higher divisions. Street should not get the same (if any) payout as Super street or Extreme. Extreme should get money and prizes FIRST!!!
I even went as far as to say street has its own place.
The argument here isn't even about payout's as some have claimed.
The only argumant being made is that there should not be any more small classes added. There are far too many now.
As you seem to have appointed your self the nonreading street advocate. You would be wrong in someone checking out a "street" class car and wanting to duplicate it. Last time I checked I haven't built any cars with the amps laying on their side to fit in the vehicle. Nor have I reciently mounted any in the rear floor board of a car. I have never made a statement about spectators waning to build extreme cars or SS cars. Where do you come up with this stuff?
The statement I have made are regarding the appeal and crowd draw of (let me type slowly) LARGER AND MORE ELABORATE systems. This whole topic has been about revitalzing and putting the awe factor back into dbDRAG.
Again. If Joe Blow wants to see a box with 2 12's that he can duplicate chances are there are a dozen or so at their school.
In summation(for those that didn't read any of the other posts) there should be less attention paid to adding one woofer SS classes or any more "small" classes such as expanding street. All effort put forth should be put into encouraging the construction of LARGER systems.
No not everyone can go buy all kinds of crazy equipment, but for the price of 2-bad ass 12's Im just as sure you can get 8 Kicker comps and build your self a show stealing wall for the local sound off. You street guys should have plenty of power with the Collussus(sp?), 9.0's and 4KW's you have floating around.
Leave the classes ALONE. Lets put forth effort elsewhere.
posted
So we are all going to go to the Bank of Neill Barber to fund these $100,000+ dollar stereo systems that you propose we all get?
Wait a second..let's break this down - You have all of these competitors year in and year out. switching 'free' rides every year wanting the newest latest and greatest woofer and amplifier combonation for you guessed it NOTHING...and you wonder why there pretty much is no such thing as a "sponsorship" any longer - Companies are smart and quite obviously got tired of being stabbed in the back.
Free is no longer in any ones vocabulary; for the money that a manufacture invests in 1 extreme vehicle they can have 4 or 6 street vehicles...get more exposure and chances are the people who compete in street division are more loyal to the manufactures that take care of them. They aren't going to go out the next year when the 'contract' is up and sell everything, turn a profit and retire.
Not meaning to rip your ass or anything - But you have to realize that there are many deciding factors in this idea of SPL competition/sponsorships.
-------------------- When a marketing guy puts the cookies on the table and tells the tale of how it is. It's real funny that everything all of a sudden changes...
-ex staff :shakes head and walks away:- Posts: 5317 | From: Radford, Va...Radford University! | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I think the only class that would be nice to have added is the SS 1 Class its the next step for the S-M guys that want to move up with very little change and money.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Ok, so, how many customers have walked into Audio Extremes and said:
"Hey, I want a van like Mike Huges. I want something huge, cumbersome, not driveable, retails for tens of thousands of dollars, burps one note and sits in my driveway. I want it to look BEAUTIFUL, I want it to be FULL of amps and subs and fiberglass. But yeah, I don't want it to cruise or anything."
So, how much do you think that install would cost?
How many kids have come in and said "Hey, I want my system to be louder than this kid's at school. I want it to slam, but, I only have X amount of money".
I think I know the answer.
The small consumer is where the money is nowadays. The economy, jobs, and industry is'nt like it was back in 97 or 98 (I'm 30 and I know). I really wish there were more Steve Cottons, Alton's Audio cars, Jay Lovelaces (his street cars are badassed to).
But there is'nt.
So, we need to shift to where the consumers are.
Kids are'nt driving minitrucks anymore. tehy are'nt driving slammed astro's. They are driving (eek) Hondas. They want a place to compete. If we don't give them a place to compete (with their smaller systems), they will find another organization.
If it stays the same, we can all sit on the roof of Mike Hughes van and watch the Honda's, money, and future drive off to IASCA, USACI, or NSPL.
posted
Please try and read. As its stated above there is no need to spend 100,000 to have a large or comptitive system.
No one asked YOU or anyone else to go build one. I am demanding no change to the current class arrangement. If thats true then you can keep you 2 10's and be happy competing all you want.
But as a retailer and competitor since 95 I know what got me interested and what keep my customers coming by just to see what I've done now.
If you are reading this and taking it personally maybe you should. People taking this personally are just that. Self absorbed. I am on here attempting to express an opinion and idea to help expand dbDRAG and bring back some glory over the next few years and all I do is get Smack talk from Street competitors when I didn't even bag on you.
Thats why we're in the trouble we're in now. Trying to vote over the last few years to make everyone happy.
I hate to see what happens to someone asking for change. I'm just expressing it should be left alone and have effort put forth to make it bigger and better.
You personally must want dbDRAG to be just small enough so everyone can go to finals. Iwould liek there to be 2000+ competitor going for the 150 spots available at finals.
We have to reach the masses not just please the people already involved.
posted
Vega you need to read also. I am discussing interest and expansion not building extreme cars for 16 year olds.
Above I even directly stated that I do not see people going out and buying SS or EX setups. I was referring to the interest they generate whn at events.
posted
True we need to be able to bring them into the lanes too. But just about every car in the lanes are 1 note wonders. I dont hear Terry Brocks ridding around playing Little John. SO why dont everybody quit bashing each other and figure out a way to get more people into the lanes.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Right Neill - Reaching the masses - What do the masses have?
Extreme cars...not that i know of
Huge super street installs? nope..dont think so
Or a pair of 12's and a 1000 watt amp?
The kids with the pair of 12's and the 1000 watt amp are more then willing to fork over 25-30 bucks to get a trophy, have bragging rights and even the possibility to compete in the WORLD FINALS.
Once they are invited then they can say to all of their friends 'Yeah i have one of the top 25 cars in my class in the entire world for SPL'
Their friends think wow..i wonder if i can do this - Then the sport GROWS; by one simple thing and one of the BEST marketing tools in the world...
Word Of Mouth.
-------------------- When a marketing guy puts the cookies on the table and tells the tale of how it is. It's real funny that everything all of a sudden changes...
-ex staff :shakes head and walks away:- Posts: 5317 | From: Radford, Va...Radford University! | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: I am in favor of adding incentive (money and prizes) to the Extreme division. Therefore encouraging more of them to be built. Also incentive at large events for Super street classes. Cash payouts should be LARGER for the higher divisions. Street should not get the same (if any) payout as Super street or Extreme. Extreme should get money and prizes FIRST!!!
Brilliant!!!
hey guys,what Mr Barber is tryin to say is that every "EXTREME" competitor that has won a DB Drag world championship is very poor and unsponsored.
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2009 US.Top Cert.St C 158.7 2008 US.Top Cert.St C 158.4 2008 25-48NW NSPL World Champion 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag St A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US.record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4972 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Ya know, I use to have a wall of strokers in my old S10 YEARS ago. Drove all over NC and SC for NSPL (dB drag was'nt around here myuch in the early late 90's). I been around the block a few times with the SS thing, so I do know what I'm talking about here.
Got kind of old having all that stuff in a daily driver. Plus, having a wife, kids, and house kind of put things into perspective.
So, you want more SS and Extreme classes?
There we're 54 certified extreme vehciles in '04.
Fifty four.
Well over 330 in the street classes.
So, we should cater to the 54 extreme vehicles? I mean, I guess I just don't get it. It's written all over the place where the money is...
posted
This is a useless battle no one wants to fix nothing they just want to sit here and pick all the classes to hell. No wonder is going down hill.
-------------------- TEAM SOUNDSTREAM BASS RACE 06 World Finals Bass Race 6th IASCA World Champion, New World Record 170.1 04 2nd Springbreak Nationals 06 2nd DB Drag World Finals 04 2nd IASCA World Finals 03 9 Al ST. Records Posts: 7486 | From: Dothan Al. | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Who asked for more SS or EX classes. Again if you've been around the block try and read what I'm saying.
And yes we should cater to the EX competitors. There were over a 100 the first 2-3 years of dbdrag. If we want to see the number 54 grow they should eb catered to for still having the drive to build the cars in the first place.
Terry. I bet more extreme competitor than you could ever know about struggle just like you or anyone else think you do. They keep building the damn things to be purists. So when Steve, the mikes, Jay and a few others "retire" where is it going to go.
And Vega I have pics of the 18-15's in my daily driver astro and the 12-15's in my Jeep as well as alot of others. But I now have a family and a business so there's not much music in my Chevy truck. It's called growing up.
All the street classes will be left alone and all the playground that is there now will still be there. I can not see for an instant where all this animosity or thinking I want every call to be for walls and every car should have 80 12's in it.
I believe there should be incentive for competitiors to "move up" and go into bigger classes. TO keep the sport growing. If everyone(all the SS and EX) cars go away. We won't have much of a "show" at SBN and others.
Would as many people come to MOTO's if they were just Goldwings crusing the Wal-Mart parking lot?
quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: Who the hell ever dogged the street class.
quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: They come out and spend their MONEY to see LARGE ELABORATE systems. Not poopbox cars with wire all over the place and a liquid nail covered box with 2-12's and an aero port sticking out of it.
Maybe Neil Barber?
quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: The statement I have made are regarding the appeal and crowd draw of (let me type slowly) LARGER AND MORE ELABORATE systems. This whole topic has been about revitalzing and putting the awe factor back into dbDRAG.
Im not the one looking for a co-op to build a 'large elaborate system.'
Face it dude, 99.99% of consumers and spectators are NOT going to build a 10,000 pound behemoth that sits in the driveway and is only capable of a single 70+ Hz note. 54 certified scores for the ENTIRE year in the ENTIRE USA PROVES that!
It does not matter whether the VEHICLE draws a crowd. A top fuel dragster draws a crowd also. Is this CROWD gonna build one? dB Drag should focus on what the majority of the SPECTATORS are going to ACTUALLY build. By the looks of the certified scores, that would be a Street car.
BTW Neil, I have been competing in SPL since 1990.
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio Posts: 6144 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: Who the hell ever dogged the street class.
quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: They come out and spend their MONEY to see LARGE ELABORATE systems. Not poopbox cars with wire all over the place and a liquid nail covered box with 2-12's and an aero port sticking out of it.
Maybe Neil Barber?
quote:Originally posted by Neill Barber: The statement I have made are regarding the appeal and crowd draw of (let me type slowly) LARGER AND MORE ELABORATE systems. This whole topic has been about revitalzing and putting the awe factor back into dbDRAG.
Im not the one looking for a co-op to build a 'large elaborate system.'
Face it dude, 99.99% of consumers and spectators are NOT going to build a 10,000 pound behemoth that sits in the driveway and is only capable of a single 70+ Hz note. 54 certified scores for the ENTIRE year in the ENTIRE USA PROVES that!
It does not matter whether the VEHICLE draws a crowd. A top fuel dragster draws a crowd also. Is this CROWD gonna build one? dB Drag should focus on what the majority of the SPECTATORS are going to ACTUALLY build. By the looks of the certified scores, that would be a Street car.
you found the problem... its time to get rid of the street lifers. so we can get these spectators and consumers feet wet in street and not getting their butt kicked by people who have had their vehicle for 4-5 years. it is a joke how anyone who has won or been top 4 at dbdrag finals is still in street. we need to outlaw these vehicles from competing in street the following year. rome wasn't built in one day but after the consumer and spectator has success, they will be more inclined to go bigger. better than having them be blown out by 10 db and then never compete again.
posted
Mini Street will solve all the problems ???
-------------------- The Peoples Mod/Champ
2006 Bass Race World Finals 130-139.9 Champion Using Crunch Sub Woofers! 2007 Bass Race Indy Regionals 130-139.9 3rd Place 2008 Bass Race Indy Regionals 130-139.9 2nd Place
If you ain't down with the Iggster and his sounds, I got 2 words for ya: Bass Race Posts: 29928 | From: Tinley Park, Illinoize | Registered: Jul 1999
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Never did I say any customer was going to build an EX car. Pleaase go back and READ.
What I said is that the builing and presence of an EX vehicle at an event is CROWD PLEASING. I do have people other than competitors show up to my events.
What I propose is incentive for current competitors to STEP UP and go to a larger class. Currently there is no incentive therefore the number of EX cars declines.
If you owuld like the reciept for my equipment from 96-2001 I still have them. I paid. I saked up and built a damn stereo with 2 jobs to compete. I didn't complain that it was too hard and ask for a smaller class.
The smaller classes are there now and will continue to bring in all the "money" you say they do. There should be reason though for people to move up.
If YOU or anyone else goes to finals in Street more than once you are ROBBING another "beginner" of the same oppertunity. You taking up that spot bumped him. Move over, step up, and actually help the beginners have a shot. You talk a good game about helping new competitors but I'm sure you wouldn't give up a spot at finals for soeone who hasn't been yet.
quote:Originally posted by Iggster: Mini Street will solve all the problems ???
What problems. I am not asking for new classes. I want the ones to be left alone. All I propose is an incentive for existing competitors to move up and build bigger systems. But Im getting slammed. WTF
quote:Originally posted by jarfunkz: you found the problem... its time to get rid of the street lifers. so we can get these spectators and consumers feet wet in street and not getting their butt kicked by people who have had their vehicle for 4-5 years. it is a joke how anyone who has won or been top 4 at dbdrag finals is still in street. we need to outlaw these vehicles from competing in street the following year. rome wasn't built in one day but after the consumer and spectator has success, they will be more inclined to go bigger. better than having them be blown out by 10 db and then never compete again.
Finally someone on the same side of the fence. HELL YEAH HE CAN READ!!!
posted
QUOTE]you found the problem... its time to get rid of the street lifers. so we can get these spectators and consumers feet wet in street and not getting their butt kicked by people who have had their vehicle for 4-5 years. it is a joke how anyone who has won or been top 4 at dbdrag finals is still in street. we need to outlaw these vehicles from competing in street the following year. rome wasn't built in one day but after the consumer and spectator has success, they will be more inclined to go bigger. better than having them be blown out by 10 db and then never compete again. [/QB][/QUOTE]
x2
i think that would help street .....but then they will say "its to much to move up"
this will be my only time chiming in as no one seems to want to compermise with anything!
i will be in the class the rules put me in as always and hope for the best.....but i do see a slow down next year as most of the people i talk to are fed up with all the bitching.
only TONS AND TONS of bitching will change NOTHING.
lets grow up and offer some good points from everyone about how THERE classes could change for the better and if your not in a class dont speak about it.
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