quote:Originally posted by dBSteve: Basically the judge would put you into an Unlimited Division, meaning unlimited # of woofers, amplifiers, batteries, bullet proof glass and concret interior, all because you have 8" woofers in your doors.
The easiest and simpliest thing you can do is remove them during competition if you want to compete.
Some companies make a 8" co-axle. You might look at those.
this is what i dont't get, how can you guys have a rule book, the above quote sounds like the 8" co axial speaker is ok to be in the doors?? yet "The dBDRA considers speakers with advertised maximum diameters of 8 inches or larger to be woofers."
why have a rule book then bend it or read it how you want it to be?
the new rules don't need changing just redefinining and sticking too, with no exceptions!
-------------------- Posts: 388 | From: derbyshire, england | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
yeah, I had second thoughts before posting that.
I was refering to the Memphis 8" Co-axle. This is truly a co-axle speaker. Its proven to NOT be a woofer.
A person should be able to install what ever he or she wants in their vehicle. if it happens to fall into a lower class, thats great. Someone shouldn't have to build/design and purchase equipment that want in their vehicle around an organizations class. The organization shouldn't dictate what you can or can not have in your vehicle. I say, buy want you want.
if this vehicle shows up with 8" co-axles at a single point event, depending on the install I would probally let him run.
I have only had this happen at 1 event in 4 years.
What exactly did you want to discuss with this post regarding 2005 Rules Discussion?
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8435 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
basically the rules are there to be applied and shouldn't be bent, the spirit of the rule is ok, til someone else thinks they know the intent of the rule, or the way it should be applied, basically the rules need defining, and rules like the eight inch woofer rule should be changed to, for example - if speakers infront of the bpillar can be proved to be not working when in the lanes then they can be 8" or smaller (also 6x9's are allowed) which is the biggest size most people would think of putting in doors!
there are lots of rules that can be interpreted, the above is my take on just one of them!
140 dB rule is a put off for newbs too, but that has its own thread!
-------------------- Posts: 388 | From: derbyshire, england | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Hakeeb: The rule says woofers(8" or larger). A coax is not a woofer
2-1 The dBDRA considers speakers with advertised maximum diameters of 8 inches or larger to be woofers.
Sid, being as your quoting from the rule book:
quote:When those occasions arise, it is the responsibility of the head judge to make a determination as to whether the incident in question abides by the “spirit” of dB Drag Racing competition. As a competitor, it is your responsibility to understand the rules contained in this book and to abide by any decisions rendered by the head judge.
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8435 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Hakeeb: The rule says woofers(8" or larger). A coax is not a woofer
2-1 The dBDRA considers speakers with advertised maximum diameters of 8 inches or larger to be woofers.
But if your playing 80-250hz its not a woofer, its a mid
Prove the units are disconnected and let them run.
-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC - Team RE - Team DD Posts: 2956 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by dBSteve: Sid, being as your quoting from the rule book:
quote:When those occasions arise, it is the responsibility of the head judge to make a determination as to whether the incident in question abides by the “spirit” of dB Drag Racing competition. As a competitor, it is your responsibility to understand the rules contained in this book and to abide by any decisions rendered by the head judge.
I was only making correction to the suggestion that dBDRA identifies different types of 8" drivers in various catagories. However, since you seem to have mistaken what I was attempting to display, and elected to counter with another section of the rule book, you might want to consider using all of the paragraph, and not just that which promotes your position....
In you quote of the rules, you forgot to include
quote:The dB Drag Racing Association (dBDRA) has gone to great lengths to insure that the rules for competing in dB Drag Racing are as comprehensive and unambiguous as possible. Even so, there will invariably be times when a particular application or installation will fall outside the scope of this rulebook.
The rule that I have previously quoted, is direct and can not be "misunderstood". The dBDRA rule book does not have provisions for various types of speaker design.
However, I do agree with the partial quote that you decided to select. The head judge should have final say in any matter which the rule book has not defined. Being that the rulebook directly defines the use of 8" speakers, and how such speaker will be identified when determining classification eligibility, are you suggesting that the rulebook for dBDRA is misleading?
posted
They are looking at the use of a "woofer" to obtain higher levels of SPL. They have used 8" as a general guideline in the rule book because generally speaking that is the poing where you begin to purchase woofers, not midrange devices. There are exceptions though and as he pointed out the Memphis 8" coaxial is designed as a midrange device, not a woofer.
It seems as if you are trying to make an argument for DB Drag defining a woofer versus a midrange device. But making such a ruling would only leave room for loopholes that people would look to exploit.
In such a case I completely agree with Steve. His decision makes sense, he is following the spirit of the rule. Since he is involved with making, discussing, and enforcing rules, it only makes sense to me that he is in a position to use discretion to determine what is within the spirit of the rule and what is not. You guys seem to be making a big to do over nothing IMHO.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Dilbeck: They are looking at the use of a "woofer" to obtain higher levels of SPL. They have used 8" as a general guideline in the rule book because generally speaking that is the poing where you begin to purchase woofers, not midrange devices. There are exceptions though and as he pointed out the Memphis 8" coaxial is designed as a midrange device, not a woofer.
It seems as if you are trying to make an argument for DB Drag defining a woofer versus a midrange device. But making such a ruling would only leave room for loopholes that people would look to exploit.
In such a case I completely agree with Steve. His decision makes sense, he is following the spirit of the rule. Since he is involved with making, discussing, and enforcing rules, it only makes sense to me that he is in a position to use discretion to determine what is within the spirit of the rule and what is not. You guys seem to be making a big to do over nothing IMHO.
Chris, you've just been added to my Christmas card list
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8435 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Would allowing someone to create thier own rules, even if it is strictly prohibited in the roolbook, not create the same "loophole" situation?
Personally, I would like competitors to be able to use 8" speakers. However, the current rules state that is not an option. By changing the factor in which the dBDRA defines 8" speakers, to allow "non-woofer" configurations, may benefit everyone who follows the same rule.
On a alternative: If 8" midrange/coaxial speakers are allowed, would that open a loophole to allow competitors to use woofers, and simply call them "midrange/coaxial speakers". By the current ruling, there can be no confusion as to what 8" speaker/driver is mounted in the vehicle.
posted
STEVE REMEMBER MY 8" THAT WERE IN THE CAMARO SO IT PUT ME IN SS 3-4 THAT SUCKED THEY ONLY PLAYED IN THE 500 HZ RANGE BUT IT WAS A WOOFER AND THEY WERE BEHIND THE B PILLAR
-------------------- (((The tramp thought she would keep me down but i won so up hers))) Posts: 2938 | From: oklahoma city | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by JAY1ER: STEVE REMEMBER MY 8" THAT WERE IN THE CAMARO SO IT PUT ME IN SS 3-4 THAT SUCKED THEY ONLY PLAYED IN THE 500 HZ RANGE BUT IT WAS A WOOFER AND THEY WERE BEHIND THE B PILLAR
they didn't have tweeters in the middle of them did they
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8435 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by JAY1ER: STEVE REMEMBER MY 8" THAT WERE IN THE CAMARO SO IT PUT ME IN SS 3-4 THAT SUCKED THEY ONLY PLAYED IN THE 500 HZ RANGE BUT IT WAS A WOOFER AND THEY WERE BEHIND THE B PILLAR
they didn't have tweeters in the middle of them did they
Curious to know...would having a tweeter mounted in the middle of the 8" speaker, made a difference in which class the competitor would have been qualified?
quote:Originally posted by JAY1ER: STEVE REMEMBER MY 8" THAT WERE IN THE CAMARO SO IT PUT ME IN SS 3-4 THAT SUCKED THEY ONLY PLAYED IN THE 500 HZ RANGE BUT IT WAS A WOOFER AND THEY WERE BEHIND THE B PILLAR
they didn't have tweeters in the middle of them did they
Curious to know...would having a tweeter mounted in the middle of the 8" speaker, made a difference in which class the competitor would have been qualified?
yes, cause woofers dont' have tweeters
Sid you can drop it anytime
thanks
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8435 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
If there is a competitor that is using an 8" COAXIAL speaker I will problaby let him run with that also.. All 8" coaxials I have seen is not a "woofer type" speaker...
Anyway, I don't think that this will gain the SPL, I think that a competitor who is competing in SPL contest and NOT turn off or disconnect his/hers "mids and tweeters" is not thinking about the risk he/she has to blow up the speakers....
I know the rules says that 8" is what dBDRA count as subwoofers....But is a coax speaker a subwoofer ?
-------------------- Tor Aamodt
*Head Judge at World finals 2004, 2006 and 2007 *Judge at World finals 2002 - 2003 *Norwegian dB Drag Racing Association. (NdBDRA) *Certified multi point judge.
quote:Originally posted by Tor Steinar Aamodt: If there is a competitor that is using an 8" COAXIAL speaker I will problaby let him run with that also.. All 8" coaxials I have seen is not a "woofer type" speaker...
Anyway, I don't think that this will gain the SPL, I think that a competitor who is competing in SPL contest and NOT turn off or disconnect his/hers "mids and tweeters" is not thinking about the risk he/she has to blow up the speakers....
I know the rules says that 8" is what dBDRA count as subwoofers....But is a coax speaker a subwoofer ?
Thank You.
X
Posts: 426 | From: Edmonton, Alberta | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sid Grice: Would allowing someone to create thier own rules, even if it is strictly prohibited in the roolbook, not create the same "loophole" situation?
Your statement doesn't quite accurately depict what is happening here. But fortunately I know what you meant by that statement. No one is creating any rules here, Steve is excersizing judgment. There is no loophole as it is currently stated. There is an exception based on the judges discretion in this case, but a single exception being pointed out does not a loophole make.
It's pointless to argue because I'm a master debater,,, errr no wait a minute,,,, that's what I do in private! Smile, this $hit is supposed to be fun.
[ 10-19-2004, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Chris Dilbeck ]
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Formula ID: What if i ran 2 sets of 8" 3way components in the doors in Street-B with my Excursion?
I think you could get 3 sets, maybe even 4 sets to fit..
When listening to dynamic sound reproduction, one can never have enough stability. And, one old school rule of thumb...the more components, the more stability.
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