-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: I don't think you guys understand. Ford made the econoline van in a double extension(about 5 feet longer than riley's van) You can fit enough batteries for 100 T3000's and the amps if you are creative enough. It has to stop somewhere. By limiting to DVC's it is much easier for people to come up with the amount of amps it takes to run superstreet classes. If you want to run quads and lots of big amps, usac, meca, iasca, slap, nspl, they have a place for you.
I understand your thinking, but you are missing one major giant aspect of the whole thing...
NO WOOFER IN THE WORLD WILL TAKE THAT MUCH POWER!
If quads are allowed, I wholeheartedly believe that you will not see any real increase in the total ammount of power being run by people. We are already setting things on fire with what we have. You just cant go any further.
The only change will be that people will be using 8 amps instead of 1 to get the power. People will be spending less money to get this power (for those of us that have to pay to make our way, this is MAJOR). Actual retail products will be used and promoted; further helping the industry.
Also, I would like to comment further on your post.
You say with dvc's its easier for people to get the number of ampilifiers they need. Sure. But that is not what counts. It is the total ammount of power that is important. And it is much more difficult for people to come up with that power if only dvcs are allowed.
Lets say it takes a 6000 watts to be competitive in a given class. Would I rather buy 1 spl dynamics 6000d for $4000, or say, 8 smaller mono blocks for maybe $1500?
you took the words right out of my mouth. I couldn't think how to get that concept put into words. been a long day.
Anyway...BRING BACK QUADS
I AGREE.
There are lots of 1000D's out there. And they still sell them.
I know of one competitor that bought a wack of 1000D's instead of 2000D's last year because he got more of a discount by buying the smaller ones.
I would like to see quads again.
X
Posts: 426 | From: Edmonton, Alberta | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny:
I guess your definition and mine of being competitive differ. I look at being competitive as winning. If you don't want to win, whats the point? [/QB]
I respect you wanting to win and that is great. But some of us just want to a least be able to compete. I come in second or third to somebody that has deep pockets o well at least I tried my best possible to my budget. Bring back the Quads and no limitation on extreme cars thats why they are call extreme.
posted
Then choose the right class to suit your budget.
Why not allow compeditors to go all out and use 8 T3000s per woofer?
If you aren't able to compete with this then look at a different class.
People are able to compete with limited equipment they call it street class...
Posts: 375 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I got a idea.... How about we don't allow anything, No quads,No strappable amps,No 16 volts, No,No,No No, No,.SHUT the hell up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I started when we had a 50,000 watts limit, I got my ass handed to me all the time ,But it made me want to win more and more,Point is Just because you don't want something does not mean that is the way 12,000 other competitors feel ,GET IT????? There are way to many restrictions in SS right now any damn way. If you don't want to spend all your money,Be tired and broke all the time do to rebuilds and such, Then This is not the sport for you!!!! However, for 20.00, Whitlee will give you a trophy and a place in there winners pics!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Gorman Cassidy aka GMAN 1999 Iasca Idbl Points Champion 2000 DB Drag FinalsSS9+ 10th Place 2001 DB Drag FinalsSS5-8 9th place 2002 DB Drag FinalsSS3-4 7th place 2003 Slap World Champion SS 3 2003 DB Drag FinalsSS3-4 2nd place 2004 SS 3-4 Record Holder 163.4 2005 SS 3-4 Champ 166.9& WR 166.4 2006 SS 3-4 SBN Champ 167.6 WR 167.4 2006 SS 3-4 WF Champ & WR 168.2 2007 SS 3-4 SBN Champ 168.8 & WR 168.4 I,ll come back when someone beats my certified score!!!! Posts: 745 | From: montgomery, Al | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I have an idea, why dont we just let everyone make up their own class, that way everyone will win first place
-------------------- Scott Van Riper Team Its Real http://www.kinetikpower.com http://www.180db.com 04' DB Drag finals Ex 3-4 169.2 3rd place 04' MECA World Finals 2nd place X2 170.9 04' IDBL World Finals 1st place Ultimate 3 173.4 05' DB Drag Finals ex 1 4th place 06' DB Drag Finals ex 2 2nd place 07' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place 08' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place (loudest losing score 177.3 db lol) Posts: 9053 | From: Morgantown WV | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
quad coils are not needed if you build it right and have the right power you will win. prime example is tim phillips he doesn't use quad coils and he is always winning so don't give me that crap about needing quads they are a blight to the sport and i am glad they are banned.
-------------------- 2006 DB DRAG World Finals Extreme-1 2nd Place 2005 DB DRAG World Finals SS-3/4 6th Place Posts: 691 | From: Downey, Ca | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
i am searching for a quad coil and i came at the Hifonics Goliath (fits with my hifonics amps).. not specifically cause it can handle a lot more power, just because i can use my current amp now, and later buy a second one
not every competitor has a dozen RF T3000/Crowns/EXT6000's
and that guys with more money(=more power) are gonna win from my 2 simple monoamps from together 3000w rms is really normal and i'm not worrying about it
-------------------- Proud member of Team Gates Posts: 117 | From: Belgium | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by spl1: I got a idea.... How about we don't allow anything, No quads,No strappable amps,No 16 volts, No,No,No No, No,.SHUT the hell up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I started when we had a 50,000 watts limit, I got my ass handed to me all the time ,But it made me want to win more and more,Point is Just because you don't want something does not mean that is the way 12,000 other competitors feel ,GET IT????? There are way to many restrictions in SS right now any damn way. If you don't want to spend all your money,Be tired and broke all the time do to rebuilds and such, Then This is not the sport for you!!!! However, for 20.00, Whitlee will give you a trophy and a place in there winners pics!!!!!!!!!!
This post is sheer ignorance....
It is not about cost. Cost is high no matter how you go about it.
IT IS ABOUT KEEPING IT FAIR!
The current rules give an extremely clear and extremely huge advantage to people who run supersized-no retail value-monster amps.
quote:Originally posted by pharcyde: quad coils are not needed if you build it right and have the right power you will win. prime example is tim phillips he doesn't use quad coils and he is always winning so don't give me that crap about needing quads they are a blight to the sport and i am glad they are banned.
No one needs quads. Quads just make it easier for people who purchase REAL production amps. We all know there is no retail market for the large amps that dominate these classes. The rules are written so that only these people have a chance.
You are correct when you say its about having the right power. Thats very true indeed. Only problem is, non sponsored people simply cannot get that power since the rules are tailored to the wants of the few and not the needs of the many.
quote:Originally posted by spl1: I got a idea.... How about we don't allow anything, No quads,No strappable amps,No 16 volts, No,No,No No, No,.SHUT the hell up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I started when we had a 50,000 watts limit, I got my ass handed to me all the time ,But it made me want to win more and more,Point is Just because you don't want something does not mean that is the way 12,000 other competitors feel ,GET IT????? There are way to many restrictions in SS right now any damn way. If you don't want to spend all your money,Be tired and broke all the time do to rebuilds and such, Then This is not the sport for you!!!! However, for 20.00, Whitlee will give you a trophy and a place in there winners pics!!!!!!!!!!
This post is sheer ignorance....
It is not about cost. Cost is high no matter how you go about it.
IT IS ABOUT KEEPING IT FAIR!
The current rules give an extremely clear and extremely huge advantage to people who run supersized-no retail value-monster amps.
Ignorance????? ,Keeping it fair??????? I ask you , What is fair??? Is fair wanting to have rules that benefit a certain persons perticular situation Even though most of DbDrag competitors Don't agree??? Hell ,quads gave the guy who couldn't afford the super amps a chance w/8 1000d or similar amps.
-------------------- Gorman Cassidy aka GMAN 1999 Iasca Idbl Points Champion 2000 DB Drag FinalsSS9+ 10th Place 2001 DB Drag FinalsSS5-8 9th place 2002 DB Drag FinalsSS3-4 7th place 2003 Slap World Champion SS 3 2003 DB Drag FinalsSS3-4 2nd place 2004 SS 3-4 Record Holder 163.4 2005 SS 3-4 Champ 166.9& WR 166.4 2006 SS 3-4 SBN Champ 167.6 WR 167.4 2006 SS 3-4 WF Champ & WR 168.2 2007 SS 3-4 SBN Champ 168.8 & WR 168.4 I,ll come back when someone beats my certified score!!!! Posts: 745 | From: montgomery, Al | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
yes i agree on that.by using quads you can use the same amps that are used by normal street cars in every day use(1000d)
Posts: 57 | From: FINLAND | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Just wondering if a person thinks about it what is so bad about quads all they really offer is more wiring options. That’s basically it, and that only leads to different equipment choices for people to use allowing for many different products to be used. Also their truly isn't a difference in the performance of a given driver between a quad and a dvc, I mean if for that given driver lets say the quad has four 2 layer coils and the dvc has two 4 layer, coils and they are of equal weight, there is no real efficiency difference, and you should have the same thermal handling all things being equal. The difference being that they can just be hooked up differently. What’s the huge deal here, basically the drivers will take the same abuse you can just run more companies equipment, because you can easily put a couple lower line amps on them to get to a certain power level. Although if some one wants to run a dvc or svc, well then they can by a us 6000 or crown or what ever else they wish to run to hit the power they want. With so many different products on the market I don't see why it would matter how you get the power as long as you can. It almost seems to be a circular argument that really doesn't make any sense, it’s just about how to wire it up not power levels, and I don't really see an advantage for either camp. I'm if your not happy about QVC why not get ride of DVC's also and just stick with SVC it's the same mentality. It makes no sense to me personally to limit voice coils numbers. That’s just my opinion and it doesn't really matter one way or the other so don't take it as an inflammatory statement, just trying to find the logic behind this idea.
I don't think that money should be used to argue one way or another as in this sport money is pretty much its base. I know install is the most important function of how loud something is but the time invested into the install is also money either lost by not doing something else etc. So basically in a sport based upon equipment and man-hours the guy with either the most of those two things will win. Example if a multi-millionaire wanted to he could hire all work done and design and market his own line of products based upon the work of others to beat everyone if enough money was behind it. Again not trying to step on anyone thoughts just in almost every case the old saying money talks and BS walks holds very true in this sport.
Again just a thought don't get real pissed.
-------------------- LOOKING FOR A BLOWN JBL GTI w15
Excessive Amperage 05 gto tc 4hp 12's Colossus II DEAF SQuAD NoRtH Audiophyle is a THIEF TC Sounds in all my rides Posts: 1710 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Do you guys really think the progression on speaker technology is going to stop. All the people keep saying speakers won't take the power. Wake up! Speakers are being made to handle more and more power everyday. Today there may not be a speaker that can handle 4 crowns but tomorrow there will be. Last year people had 4 of the Audiobahn 5000 watt amps on one speaker and they held the power just fine.
To all the people who say "DB Drag is where the Big Boys play" The big boys are comming fewer. People will not keep spending thousands of dollars on DB Drag. Every year finals has had fewer and fewer competitors, this year Wayne Bans quad and the number of competitors goes up. HMMM
posted
Screw it...just call it all off! You can't please everyone and it will never be fair to one person or another.
Posts: 3280 | From: North Little Rock, Arkansas | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Hakeeb: this year Wayne Bans quad and the number of competitors goes up. HMMM
Not to start anything , i dont say i disagree with you , just got questions about it ; for pure Fun : if that statement is correct and there are more competitors true banning quads , i ship you some free bottles of Jupiler beer I promise .
quote:Originally posted by Hakeeb: Do you guys really think the progression on speaker technology is going to stop. All the people keep saying speakers won't take the power. Wake up! Speakers are being made to handle more and more power everyday. Today there may not be a speaker that can handle 4 crowns but tomorrow there will be. Last year people had 4 of the Audiobahn 5000 watt amps on one speaker and they held the power just fine.
To all the people who say "DB Drag is where the Big Boys play" The big boys are comming fewer. People will not keep spending thousands of dollars on DB Drag. Every year finals has had fewer and fewer competitors, this year Wayne Bans quad and the number of competitors goes up. HMMM
No. It wont stop.
But, does amplifier technology not also continue progressing? Next year there will be amps that do 500 gigawatts. So where do we draw the line?
Lets face it; the ban on quads was a failed attempt to limit power. All it has really done is limit power for some, and allow others a clear advantage.
If a limit on power is whats needed, then thats what we need to do.
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: I don't think you guys understand. Ford made the econoline van in a double extension(about 5 feet longer than riley's van) You can fit enough batteries for 100 T3000's and the amps if you are creative enough. It has to stop somewhere. By limiting to DVC's it is much easier for people to come up with the amount of amps it takes to run superstreet classes. If you want to run quads and lots of big amps, usac, meca, iasca, slap, nspl, they have a place for you.
I understand your thinking, but you are missing one major giant aspect of the whole thing...
NO WOOFER IN THE WORLD WILL TAKE THAT MUCH POWER!
If quads are allowed, I wholeheartedly believe that you will not see any real increase in the total ammount of power being run by people. We are already setting things on fire with what we have. You just cant go any further.
The only change will be that people will be using 8 amps instead of 1 to get the power. People will be spending less money to get this power (for those of us that have to pay to make our way, this is MAJOR). Actual retail products will be used and promoted; further helping the industry.
Also, I would like to comment further on your post.
You say with dvc's its easier for people to get the number of ampilifiers they need. Sure. But that is not what counts. It is the total ammount of power that is important. And it is much more difficult for people to come up with that power if only dvcs are allowed.
Lets say it takes a 6000 watts to be competitive in a given class. Would I rather buy 1 spl dynamics 6000d for $4000, or say, 8 smaller mono blocks for maybe $1500?
I think what you don't understand it that with DVC it could take say 6000 watts to be competitive but with quads that number will rise to 12000watts to be competitive in the same class. Everyone can take advantage of quads. you can run 8 small monoblock amps but i can run 8 big monoblock amps in that same class. Would that help out the "budget" competitor no it won't it will just widing the gap between people with a big budget ansd people with a small budget. And before you say speakers won't handle that power(again) i can tell you i have seen speakers handle that much power with no problems. I think the conductor rule gives everyone a more fair chance than you realize
the most powerfull sub in the world as far as i know is the DD Beast and he can only take 12 till 15KW , and that sub is a DVC there still is no QVC subwoofer that will take more , and goes louder then the beast. so you can all yell oh then he can have 4 crowns/4 EXT6000's on 1 sub, that's 32000 WATTS RMS PEOPLE, THERE'S NO SUB THAT CAN TAKE IT hell , the beast can barely handle 2 crowns , and if you really want to be sick, just put 4 linked ext6000's to it , then you also have over 32000w rms on it
QUAD IS JUST AN ADVANTAGE OF MORE WAYS TO POWER AN AMP.. QUAD SUBS ARE NOT STRONGER THEN DVC'S!
else you all can explain me why a QVC should go louder then a DVC
-------------------- Proud member of Team Gates Posts: 117 | From: Belgium | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
what about impossing a 'swap out' style rule, impossing a no change rule on busted woofers for Street Max and Super Street classes. Possibly for Extreme as well, to allow the little guys to play too.
I know i'll get flamed on this, but this would limit how much people are trying to run through their woofers. Especially for the 'Budget Concious' Competitors, against the 'Full Factory Teams' who just go and get a new woofer when the cook one. Where as the guy who pays for all of his gear has to decide to either carry extra gear or not continue with busted gear. Since everyone is saying woofers can/can't handle that much power, blah blah blah, this maybe a way to control the people who either can afford or are given 4 SPL 6000D's, at some stage the woofer or a part of it will stop functioning.
-------------------- some times way too much is just right.... Posts: 224 | From: australia | Registered: Sep 2002
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