posted
I know this topic has been discussed for a long time but I am not happy with outcome of these discussions.
I have been analyzing this issue for a long time now and I believe most of you know my perspective. I believe that the best solutions is as follows...
1 amp (or 2 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street A
2 amps (or 4 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street B
4 amps (or 8 monoblock amps externally bridged)in Street C
Continue with the conductor and battery restrictions.
Benefits
Existing competitors are not prohibited from competing.
Monoblock amplifiers are less expensive than "monster" amps
Competitors could start the season with a single amp and then add-on as the season progresses.
More amplifier brands would be competitive.
The same methodology would be used for Street Max.
I would like to reduce the allowable battery size but it is my understanding that everyone is using the Yellow-top batteries and they are 780 in^3 in size.
I would like to ask the moderators to delete any responses that do not include rational, objective information or that are derogatory in nature.
Thanks in advance.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
Wayne this will work. this is what all knowledgeble guys have been pushing for!!!
This is very good. evens out the field as much as possible while keeping the conductor rule.
The battery size is ok, nothing we can do about it now since most guys runing Yellow Top and Hawker type batteries which come close to 800 cubic inches.
Now lets see some positive responses.
--------------------
2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified 2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified 2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified 2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified 2008 Street B - 156.6 Certified
TEAM FEAR OF BASS Posts: 3611 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
What about the large batteries from bigampbatteries.com that are used in the spaceprogram? Somethig needs to be done to keep these out of street class, and at 700 dollars a pop they are not very "street"... Maybee something like batteries cannot extend over 18 inches in any direction would help.
-------------------- Scott Christensen Posts: 11356 | From: Victoria, TX | Registered: Nov 2001
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-------------------- Ben ----- www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder Team UK - Team ECC Posts: 3011 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I know this topic has been discussed for a long time but I am not happy with outcome of these discussions.
I have been analyzing this issue for a long time now and I believe most of you know my perspective. I believe that the best solutions is as follows...
1 amp (or 2 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street A
2 amps (or 4 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street B
4 amps (or 8 monoblock amps externally bridged)in Street C
Continue with the conductor and battery restrictions.
Benefits
Existing competitors are not prohibited from competing.
Monoblock amplifiers are less expensive than "monster" amps
Competitors could start the season with a single amp and then add-on as the season progresses.
More amplifier brands would be competitive.
The same methodology would be used for Street Max.
I would like to reduce the allowable battery size but it is my understanding that everyone is using the Yellow-top batteries and they are 780 in^3 in size.
I would like to ask the moderators to delete any responses that do not include rational, objective information or that are derogatory in nature.
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I know this topic has been discussed for a long time but I am not happy with outcome of these discussions.
I have been analyzing this issue for a long time now and I believe most of you know my perspective. I believe that the best solutions is as follows...
1 amp (or 2 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street A
2 amps (or 4 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street B
4 amps (or 8 monoblock amps externally bridged)in Street C
Continue with the conductor and battery restrictions.
Benefits
Existing competitors are not prohibited from competing.
Monoblock amplifiers are less expensive than "monster" amps
Competitors could start the season with a single amp and then add-on as the season progresses.
More amplifier brands would be competitive.
The same methodology would be used for Street Max.
I would like to reduce the allowable battery size but it is my understanding that everyone is using the Yellow-top batteries and they are 780 in^3 in size.
I would like to ask the moderators to delete any responses that do not include rational, objective information or that are derogatory in nature.
Thanks in advance.
Wayne,
I'm fine the conducor rule, please don't change the battery size, most people are using the Group 31's which a pretty common battery and seems to work great. No reason to change the battery size limit.
However, the one that I am totally confused about is the way you have listed the amp limit. I see A LOT of grey area around that one. I've read the posts before this one and I think if you are going to create a rule such as that one....there has to be a list. I am completely confused about the amp limitations now????
We had a final ruling the other day, and now it's been changed? Now instead of someone in Street A worrying about a single 4KW or SPL 4000D or Colossus.....now they get to worry about someone with 2 T3000's strapped together which is a much more powerful combo and it costs a ton more!
What happened to the ruling the other day?
PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE BATTERY SIZE LIMIT IN STREET MAX if our systems are supposed to be a step above street systems, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to use a battery o 800 cubic inches.
posted
Wayne. I think thats okay. But you should reduce the battery size for the Street A. Because then you could take 2 T30001 or whatever. A current battery would handle that if the amps running not below 0.7 Ohms.
posted
Wayne we really appreciate you trying to make the rules fair for street classes. The problem I see is that people are going to use eight strapped RF3000's or eight strapped SPL D 3000's or even eight strapped Goliaths. Whatever the largest strappable monoblock amp available is what will be used.
I would still like to bring up heatsink length restrictions with one in A, two in B, four in C. If you counted all the top winners at finals in street and what amps they used, the number would be around ten different amps. That would make it easy for judges to keep up with what's legal.
I still believe most STREET competitors would be for this and it is very workable. I for one, would hate to have to sell all of my amps and buy eight more to be competitive. Post a poll.
-------------------- Obviously you don't know who we think we are. SBAudio Posts: 6094 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
stick with 1 heatsink is one amp or it WILL get silly, it is meant to be street but the above ruling WILL give way to 2x rf30001bd in st A! this will not do the sport any favours, people are meant to be encouraged to join, not see how much money they have to spend and dissappear!!
my two penneth
-------------------- Posts: 432 | From: derbyshire, england | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Conclusive: Wayne we really appreciate you trying to make the rules fair for street classes. The problem I see is that people are going to use eight strapped RF3000's or eight strapped SPL D 3000's or even eight strapped Goliaths. Whatever the largest strappable monoblock amp available is what will be used.
x2
The largest strapable amps will dominate.
-------------------- Chris TEAM B.Y.O.B. - "Bring Your Own Bass" 154.3 DB - JEEP WRANGLER!! (non-crx, non-crx box...thinking outside the box) 2003 DB DRAG WORLD FINALS - 4TH PLACE STREET B 2003 H-O ALTERNATORS STREET ROOKIE OF THE YEAR 2003 DB DRAG 3RD PLACE POINTS CHAMPION - 247 POINTS SAME CAR
Posts: 874 | From: Oklahoma City | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
These are great rules wayne... I for one have no complaints... Battery power will limit the actuall power you can use... however might I suggest limiting the battery size in Street A to 500 cubic inches to aviod the strapping of 2 monster amps.
You can only get soo much power off of 1 battery or 2 batteries. Street A is the only class where if you allow a 1000 cubic inch battery things may get a little crazy. Cut the battery size in half for Street A and I think you have yourself an exceptional idea.
500 cubic inces allows a 34 group Optima... but not an SP1700 but a SP1000, SVR80, it will keep the big amps in check in Street A.
Street B and Street C the batteries will keep people from running 4 MONSTER amps strapped and 8 MONSTER amps strapped.
This is a great idea it will allow Street cars to use the full potential of a battery and also make street about Efficiency! Not just box efficiency or woofer efficiency, but also amp efficiency! Whoever has the most efficient set-up will win.
--------------------
Sound Mekanix SPL Design Team Held A World Record Street B 154.3 back in 2005.
Team "Soon to be forgotten HasBeen" Member #0001 Posts: 982 | From: Fond du Lac, WI | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Just count amps, thats the best way, the strappable amps out now a days are just as powerful as all but 1 of the non strappable amps so allowing amp to be strapped is just going to double the allowable power and not allow people to "catch up" like they think. I hate to say it, but the same people that win will win whether others have the same power as them or not. Its a proven fact, sorry.
The biggest problem I see with some of these posts is that they are coming from people who have ideas of what they "THINK" will work, or "Think" will limit power in street. The problem is that the people that really test test test know better, and know that the only thing some rules will do is double cost.
Over 90% of the street competitors don't want things to change, think about that. Will the leave or loss next year no, will the price double making more not want to compete with them, yes.
posted
What has been decides here is great, and i find this suggestion also good (for conductors, power connection and speakers)
That should be integrated into the rules in some way or the other.
However, battery at 800 cu-in are OK in my opinion. Nothing bigger, but nothing smaller.
quote:Originally posted by orphan440: Just count heatsinks and conductors, thats the best way, the strappable amps out now a days are just as powerful as all but 1 of the non strappable amps so allowing amp to be strapped is just going to double the allowable power and not allow people to "catch up" like they think. I hate to say it, but the same people that win will win whether others have the same power as them or not. Its a proven fact, sorry.
The biggest problem I see with some of these posts is that they are coming from people who have ideas of what they "THINK" will work, or "Think" will limit power in street. The problem is that the people that really test test test know better, and know that the only thing some rules will do is double cost.
Either limit the amp size(why can't we have a maximum height so two amps can't just be stacked, why wouldn't that work?) or make it so that if it looks like one amp, its one amp, if it has 2 powers and 2 grounds stacked on top of each other its obvioulsy two amps in one case. If it has 1 power 1 ground 2 speaker leads, but 2 boards, well I'd say its one amp to make everyone happy. I think this would make everyone happy, judges and companies included. Lets just use our common sense and quit trying to make things difficult that shouldn't be. Colosus, 1 amp, 4KW/EXT4000 2amps, conductors or not. My 2 cents
posted
Whatever the amp rule shall be, I think the battery should be limited to the standard size car battery. As you know this will limit power despite what amp is used.
i like it. whatever the rules are, is fine by me, i remember this is supposed to be fun. win or lose. im not gonna go out and sped my life savings to try and keep up with the money spenders just to buy a win. im gonna have fun regardless of what the ruling is.
on conclusives post:
my only problem with a "list" of legal amps, is what what mentioned in a later post, "count the amps in street a, etc.. and there were only 10 amps, which would make it easy for judges to know what is legal and what is not" or something to that affect....
if you think about it, street a is SUPPOSED to attract newbies.. what if they dont go out and buy the big money amp, they buy some off brand no name amp that nobody cares about for 100 bucks. its not LIKELY to be on the "list" so they would not be legal to run with thier generic no name amp, that couldnt hold a candle to the big boys anyway. or even something that wouldnt normally be on the list.. like say a DEI 1500D mono amp.. its not likely to be on the list, because "everyone" isnt running it. etc...
on the battery limit:
can someone PLEASE help me with this???? i see talk of 500ci 780ci 1000ci group 31, group 32, and so on... what size are batteries anyway?
for instance, my car has optima red tops. i swapped out a standard sears die hard for the optima redtop... what size is this battery? i only know its 7 or 8 cca.. but whats the cubic inch on a standard red top? just wondering so the whole battery limit will make more sense to me... thanks
-------------------- Team Maxxsonics . Kinetik Power Maxxsonics Team Captain 2005 WF SM 1-2 6th place 2006 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 3rd w/315 points : SPLMax Competitor of the Year. 2007 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 9th w/215 points : Top U.S. SM 1-2 certified score. 2007 Usaci State Records : Mod 2001-4000 : Mod 4000-up : Port Wars Open : Street Beat 4. 2008 Sold the nissan and took a break to build a new minitruck. 2009 Coming back with Bass Race & Psychlone in the minitruck.
posted
Battery size is OK as it is now. Don't change.
Number of amps as in 2004 is also cool. And IMO 2 amps in one heatsink should be OK (that is keeping manufacturers cost down). If You will change rules every year, then there won't be any second hand amps that fits new rules.
And if there is limit in battery size, make one for amps also. That is easy to check...
Peter
Posts: 1820 | From: Ljubljana, Slovenia | Registered: Jan 2000
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