Termpro Audio Forum   
my profile | directory login | register | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Termpro Audio Forum » Our Archives » dBDRA 2005 Rules Discussion (Archive) » Amp Limits in Street and Street Max (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4   
Author Topic: Amp Limits in Street and Street Max
Wayne Harris
Administrator
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wayne Harris   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Harris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know this topic has been discussed for a long time but I am not happy with outcome of these discussions.

I have been analyzing this issue for a long time now and I believe most of you know my perspective. I believe that the best solutions is as follows...

  • 1 amp (or 2 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street A
  • 2 amps (or 4 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street B
  • 4 amps (or 8 monoblock amps externally bridged)in Street C

Continue with the conductor and battery restrictions.

Benefits

  • Existing competitors are not prohibited from competing.
  • Monoblock amplifiers are less expensive than "monster" amps
  • Competitors could start the season with a single amp and then add-on as the season progresses.
  • More amplifier brands would be competitive.

The same methodology would be used for Street Max.

I would like to reduce the allowable battery size but it is my understanding that everyone is using the Yellow-top batteries and they are 780 in^3 in size.

I would like to ask the moderators to delete any responses that do not include rational, objective information or that are derogatory in nature.

Thanks in advance.

--------------------
"Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"

Wayne Harris

 -

Posts: 4989 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tinted
Senior Member
Member # 3975

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Tinted   Email Tinted   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wayne this will work. this is what all knowledgeble guys have been pushing for!!!

This is very good. evens out the field as much as possible while keeping the conductor rule.

The battery size is ok, nothing we can do about it now since most guys runing Yellow Top and Hawker type batteries which come close to 800 cubic inches.

Now lets see some positive responses.

--------------------
 -

2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified
2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified
2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified
2008 Street B - 155.5 Certified
2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified

TEAM FEAR OF BASS

Posts: 2992 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
---Navi---
Senior Member
Member # 7410

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ---Navi---   Email ---Navi---   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What about the large batteries from bigampbatteries.com that are used in the spaceprogram? Somethig needs to be done to keep these out of street class, and at 700 dollars a pop they are not very "street"... Maybee something like batteries cannot extend over 18 inches in any direction would help.

--------------------
Scott Christensen
 -
Handle every situation like a dog.

If you can't eat it or hump it.
Piss on it and walk away.

Posts: 10539 | From: Victoria, TX | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
slickwheels22
Senior Member
Member # 12997

Icon 1 posted      Profile for slickwheels22   Author's Homepage   Email slickwheels22   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
May I have a definition of"2 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street A"?
Some examples might help.

--------------------
H.O. Alternators

 -

Posts: 1203 | From: low country | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Terry Jackson
Senior Member
Member # 4601

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Terry Jackson   Author's Homepage   Email Terry Jackson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
one example might be

1 memphis mojo amp or 2 memphis 1000ds bridged to work as one amp.

--------------------
Team KICKER
Team Kinetik
2008 bassrace?
2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs
2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1)
2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!!
2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?!
2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th)
2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th)
2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year.
 -  -

Posts: 4401 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mr Bump
Senior Member
Member # 10083

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mr Bump   Author's Homepage   Email Mr Bump   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So its 1/2/4 amps or 2/4/8 strappables?

So 8 2000ds/3000Ds in Street C or 4 smaller non strappables?

I cant see how this can be good for the sport, strappables will have an easy advantage over any non strappable amp.

Simple example, 4 Viper 2500Ds Vs 8 VFL200s in Street C.

I just cant see how you can limit amps just because they lack strapping technology.

No matter what the rule, people will always buy the biggest, it really is that simple.

I hate to think of the scores in Max this year, may aswell drop the class now, its almost Super Street.

And Street C in a CRX? Its going to be a complete NW install without the batteries?

I give it a few months and there will be a pair of strapped/stereod Crowns in Street A.

[ 01-21-2005, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Mr Bump ]

--------------------
Ben
-----
www.EastCoastChoons.co.uk
UK SS 1-2 NW Record Holder
Team UK - Team ECC - Team RE - Team DD
 -

Posts: 2924 | From: Deepest Darkest Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
H-O-Alts-Rick
Senior Member
Member # 12796

Icon 1 posted      Profile for H-O-Alts-Rick   Author's Homepage   Email H-O-Alts-Rick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Harris:
I know this topic has been discussed for a long time but I am not happy with outcome of these discussions.

I have been analyzing this issue for a long time now and I believe most of you know my perspective. I believe that the best solutions is as follows...

  • 1 amp (or 2 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street A
  • 2 amps (or 4 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street B
  • 4 amps (or 8 monoblock amps externally bridged)in Street C

Continue with the conductor and battery restrictions.

Benefits

  • Existing competitors are not prohibited from competing.
  • Monoblock amplifiers are less expensive than "monster" amps
  • Competitors could start the season with a single amp and then add-on as the season progresses.
  • More amplifier brands would be competitive.

The same methodology would be used for Street Max.

I would like to reduce the allowable battery size but it is my understanding that everyone is using the Yellow-top batteries and they are 780 in^3 in size.

I would like to ask the moderators to delete any responses that do not include rational, objective information or that are derogatory in nature.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds Great!!!

--------------------
Proud to support Team Gates,Meca and USACI,
 -
 - ,Pics of the High Output Alternators Monte Carlo

Posts: 1621 | From: Davenport Ia. | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
shaven99ranger
Senior Member
Member # 14860

Icon 1 posted      Profile for shaven99ranger   Email shaven99ranger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Harris:
I know this topic has been discussed for a long time but I am not happy with outcome of these discussions.

I have been analyzing this issue for a long time now and I believe most of you know my perspective. I believe that the best solutions is as follows...

  • 1 amp (or 2 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street A
  • 2 amps (or 4 monoblock amps externally bridged) in Street B
  • 4 amps (or 8 monoblock amps externally bridged)in Street C

Continue with the conductor and battery restrictions.

Benefits

  • Existing competitors are not prohibited from competing.
  • Monoblock amplifiers are less expensive than "monster" amps
  • Competitors could start the season with a single amp and then add-on as the season progresses.
  • More amplifier brands would be competitive.

The same methodology would be used for Street Max.

I would like to reduce the allowable battery size but it is my understanding that everyone is using the Yellow-top batteries and they are 780 in^3 in size.

I would like to ask the moderators to delete any responses that do not include rational, objective information or that are derogatory in nature.

Thanks in advance.

Wayne,

I'm fine the conducor rule, please don't change the battery size, most people are using the Group 31's which a pretty common battery and seems to work great. No reason to change the battery size limit.

However, the one that I am totally confused about is the way you have listed the amp limit. I see A LOT of grey area around that one. I've read the posts before this one and I think if you are going to create a rule such as that one....there has to be a list. I am completely confused about the amp limitations now???? [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]


We had a final ruling the other day, and now it's been changed? Now instead of someone in Street A worrying about a single 4KW or SPL 4000D or Colossus.....now they get to worry about someone with 2 T3000's strapped together which is a much more powerful combo and it costs a ton more!

What happened to the ruling the other day?

PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE BATTERY SIZE LIMIT IN STREET MAX if our systems are supposed to be a step above street systems, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to use a battery o 800 cubic inches.

[ 01-22-2005, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: shaven99ranger ]

--------------------
Team KICKER
Incriminator Audio Riot Squad
Powermaster

FloridaSPL.com


 -
2007 IASCA Stock Pro 1 World Champion

Posts: 5617 | From: South Carolina | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chmielewski
Senior Member
Member # 16006

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Chmielewski   Email Chmielewski   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wayne. I think thats okay. But you should reduce the battery size for the Street A. Because then you could take 2 T30001 or whatever. A current battery would handle that if the amps running not below 0.7 Ohms.

--------------------
Team Chmielewski - Andreas

Street A - 156.0 db certified (2008)

 -

Posts: 1143 | From: Germany | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Conclusive
Senior Member
Member # 1371

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Conclusive   Email Conclusive   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wayne we really appreciate you trying to make the rules fair for street classes.
The problem I see is that people are going to use eight strapped RF3000's or eight strapped SPL D 3000's or even eight strapped Goliaths. Whatever the largest strappable monoblock amp available is what will be used.

I would still like to bring up heatsink length restrictions with one in A, two in B, four in C.
If you counted all the top winners at finals in street and what amps they used, the number would be around ten different amps. That would make it easy for judges to keep up with what's legal.


I still believe most STREET competitors would be for this and it is very workable. I for one, would hate to have to sell all of my amps and buy eight more to be competitive.
Post a poll.

--------------------
Obviously you don't know who we think we are.
SBAudio

www.bordermotorsports.com

Posts: 5265 | From: Raleigh,NC | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dumdum
Member
Member # 11344

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dumdum   Author's Homepage   Email dumdum   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
stick with 1 heatsink is one amp or it WILL get silly, it is meant to be street but the above ruling WILL give way to 2x rf30001bd in st A! this will not do the sport any favours, people are meant to be encouraged to join, not see how much money they have to spend and dissappear!!

my two penneth

--------------------
 -

Posts: 381 | From: derbyshire, england | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OkMariner
Senior Member
Member # 8438

Icon 1 posted      Profile for OkMariner     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Conclusive:
Wayne we really appreciate you trying to make the rules fair for street classes.
The problem I see is that people are going to use eight strapped RF3000's or eight strapped SPL D 3000's or even eight strapped Goliaths. Whatever the largest strappable monoblock amp available is what will be used.


x2

The largest strapable amps will dominate.

--------------------
Chris
TEAM B.Y.O.B. - "Bring Your Own Bass"
154.3 DB - JEEP WRANGLER!! (non-crx, non-crx box...thinking outside the box)
2003 DB DRAG WORLD FINALS - 4TH PLACE STREET B
2003 H-O ALTERNATORS STREET ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
2003 DB DRAG 3RD PLACE POINTS CHAMPION - 247 POINTS SAME CAR

 -  -

Posts: 874 | From: Oklahoma City | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JustinWhitty
Senior Member
Member # 12422

Icon 1 posted      Profile for JustinWhitty   Author's Homepage   Email JustinWhitty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These are great rules wayne... I for one have no complaints... Battery power will limit the actuall power you can use... however might I suggest limiting the battery size in Street A to 500 cubic inches to aviod the strapping of 2 monster amps.

You can only get soo much power off of 1 battery or 2 batteries. Street A is the only class where if you allow a 1000 cubic inch battery things may get a little crazy. Cut the battery size in half for Street A and I think you have yourself an exceptional idea.

500 cubic inces allows a 34 group Optima... but not an SP1700 but a SP1000, SVR80, it will keep the big amps in check in Street A. [Big Grin]

Street B and Street C the batteries will keep people from running 4 MONSTER amps strapped and 8 MONSTER amps strapped.

This is a great idea it will allow Street cars to use the full potential of a battery and also make street about Efficiency! Not just box efficiency or woofer efficiency, but also amp efficiency! Whoever has the most efficient set-up will win.

--------------------
 -

Sound Mekanix SPL Design Team
Held A World Record Street B 154.3 back in 2005.

Team "Soon to be forgotten HasBeen" Member #0001

Posts: 982 | From: Fond du Lac, WI | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dBSteve
Senior Member
Member # 2538

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dBSteve   Author's Homepage   Email dBSteve   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
please only post once on this topic

if you wish to communicate between eachother keep it in PM

you can also bitch at eachother here - http://audioforum.termpro.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/17/t/000176.html

--------------------
See you in the lanes,

dBSteve
Get Loud Productions LLC
 -

Posts: 8357 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
orphan440
Senior Member
Member # 4716

Icon 1 posted      Profile for orphan440   Author's Homepage   Email orphan440   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just count amps, thats the best way, the strappable amps out now a days are just as powerful as all but 1 of the non strappable amps so allowing amp to be strapped is just going to double the allowable power and not allow people to "catch up" like they think. I hate to say it, but the same people that win will win whether others have the same power as them or not. Its a proven fact, sorry.

The biggest problem I see with some of these posts is that they are coming from people who have ideas of what they "THINK" will work, or "Think" will limit power in street. The problem is that the people that really test test test know better, and know that the only thing some rules will do is double cost.

Over 90% of the street competitors don't want things to change, think about that. Will the leave or loss next year no, will the price double making more not want to compete with them, yes.

My 2 cents

[ 01-21-2005, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: orphan440 ]

--------------------
KCG
Team Maxxsonics
 -

Posts: 1425 | From: Centralia, IL | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Powermarc
Member
Member # 1430

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Powermarc   Author's Homepage   Email Powermarc   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What has been decides here is great, and i find this suggestion also good (for conductors, power connection and speakers)

That should be integrated into the rules in some way or the other.

However, battery at 800 cu-in are OK in my opinion. Nothing bigger, but nothing smaller.

quote:
Originally posted by orphan440:
Just count heatsinks and conductors, thats the best way, the strappable amps out now a days are just as powerful as all but 1 of the non strappable amps so allowing amp to be strapped is just going to double the allowable power and not allow people to "catch up" like they think. I hate to say it, but the same people that win will win whether others have the same power as them or not. Its a proven fact, sorry.

The biggest problem I see with some of these posts is that they are coming from people who have ideas of what they "THINK" will work, or "Think" will limit power in street. The problem is that the people that really test test test know better, and know that the only thing some rules will do is double cost.

Either limit the amp size(why can't we have a maximum height so two amps can't just be stacked, why wouldn't that work?) or make it so that if it looks like one amp, its one amp, if it has 2 powers and 2 grounds stacked on top of each other its obvioulsy two amps in one case. If it has 1 power 1 ground 2 speaker leads, but 2 boards, well I'd say its one amp to make everyone happy. I think this would make everyone happy, judges and companies included. Lets just use our common sense and quit trying to make things difficult that shouldn't be. Colosus, 1 amp, 4KW/EXT4000 2amps, conductors or not. My 2 cents



--------------------
 -

Posts: 283 | From: 127.0.0.1 | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Terry Jackson
Senior Member
Member # 4601

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Terry Jackson   Author's Homepage   Email Terry Jackson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wayne please go to the more simpler of plans.....


If it looks like one amp it is one amp.

--------------------
Team KICKER
Team Kinetik
2008 bassrace?
2007 -150 dbs........ooops lbs
2006 SBN Street B CHAMPION (154.1)
2006 IDBL Pro Stock 2 World record holder!!
2005 HMMMM things just didnt go right?!?!
2004 Street Max 1-2 World Finalist (6th)
2003 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist. (12th)
2003 H-O Alts Super Street Rookie of the Year.
 -  -

Posts: 4401 | From: FLORIDA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hakeeb
Senior Member
Member # 1434

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Hakeeb   Email Hakeeb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i think it is a great idea but i would recommend making the battery limit smaller

--------------------
 -

 -

Posts: 1464 | From: Moreno Valley/CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Team Urban ArtFX - Percy
Senior Member
Member # 2726

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Team Urban ArtFX - Percy   Email Team Urban ArtFX - Percy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whatever the amp rule shall be, I think the battery should be limited to the standard size car battery.
As you know this will limit power despite what amp is used.

--------------------
 -

Team Urban ArtFX
Team Maxxsonics
Team Hooker Audio

Take a look at my stat page, I have chic pics
 -

Posts: 3098 | From: Grand Rapids, MI USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
shieldsy
New Member
Member # 14048

Icon 1 posted      Profile for shieldsy   Email shieldsy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Posts: 32 | From: Australia | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: