posted
Judging officials need a tangible method for classifying competitors. In other words, a judge, or anyone else for that matter, should be able to look at a vehicle and determine what class a competitor should be in.
Currently, dB Drag Racing is in more than 50 countries around the world. There are literally thousands of amplifiers on the market. In addition, new amps are being introduced every day. Some products are not distributed globally and may only be available within a certain market. This makes it extremely difficult to keep up with all of the amplifiers being used ... Past, Present, and Future.
The dB Drag Racing officials cannot be expected to know the specifications of each and every amp on the market. They also cannot be expected to know or understand the inner workings of each amp that is being used. What is needed is a metric that can be used to quickly and effectively determine if a competitor is in the correct class. This metric should also be fair.
Currently, the primary limit to amplification in the Street and Street Max Divisions are available power (battery limits) and applicable power (conductor limits). We have also tried to limit the number of amplifiers that can be used in these divisions but the result has been chaos. For example, there are some monster amps on the market (expensive, powerful, and large) that are considered to be one amp because of the way they are constructed. There are also some smaller amplifiers that are truly one amp, but are counted as multiple amplifiers because of the way that are internally fabricated.
The easiest solution for the officiating staff is to just count the amps installed in a vehicle without regards to its power rating, internal constructions, etc.
Many competitors have voiced oppostion to this method. However, I am not convinced that their arguments are valid at this time. Their contention is that simply counting amps will allow competitors to use huge, expensive amplifiers. My perspective is that huge, expensive amplifiers are ALREADY being used. In addition, I believe that the battery restrictions and conductor limitations already effectively limit the actual amount of power that can be produced by an amp regardless of its power rating.
In an earlier post, I suggested that we do away with the amp limit altogether. This would allow competitors to use whatever they like. The battery limit and conductor limit would still effectively restrict the actual amount of power that could be utilized. The benefit of this type of scenario is that the judge doesn't need to try and determine how many amps a competitor is using. In addition, competitors could bridge multiple, smaller (cheaper) amps to produce the same effective power as the large monster amps that are currently permitted. As an added benefit, competitors could start off small (with only a single amp) and could add on to their system as the season progressed. Once again, a number of competitors voiced opposition to this proposal. Their perspective is that if you don't count amps, then competitors will use a large number of large, monster amps. I guess they believe that there is an unlimited amount of power to drive amplifiers of this nature. I am not sure how they think that multiple, internally bridged, monster amps could be connected to a woofer or woofers using only 2 electrical conductors. As you can see, I am not convinced that their arguments have any validity.
So, where does that leave us? Well, currently competitors can use large, epensive, monster amps. Judges cannot be expected to know and/or determine what constitutes a single amp or not. What do we do?
First, everyone must face the reality that Street and Street Max are NOT entry-level classes. Although my intentions were different, these classes have always been populated by veteran competitors with big systems. Over the years, I have done everything I can think of to make Street and Street Max true entry-level divisions. As you can see, I have failed in this endeavor. This is why I originally introduced the Mini Street division and why we are placing such emphasis on it this year. I believe that we will be able to retain the entry-level appeal of these classes by not offering them at the World Finals and by not awarding significant points to the winners of these classes. I also instruct judging officials to NOT allow veteran type competitors to enter these classes. I hope that all of you will use peer pressure to keep these classes open for our last best hope... the competitor that is new to our sport.
Right now, I can only think of several potential ways that can be used to limit power in the Street Division...
1. Rated Power - Won't work and I don't have the time to obtain and test all of the amps on the market.
2. Amp Quantity (Current) - Doesn't work for the reasons mentioned earlier.
3. Amp Quantity - Counting the physical amps in the vehicle. Easy and works but is more expensive for competitors than unlimited amps (below).
3. Unlimited Quantity - Would work. Batt limits and conductor restrictions limit actual deliverable power.
4. Cubic Inches - Would work but would create lots of work for the judges.
The rules committee and most of the International dB Drag Racing agents all feel that we should simply count the physical amps in the system. This is the direction we are leaning.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
i personally think very much like you do with not limiting the number of amplifiers in a system. battery and conductors will take care of power. you could also go further with that rule in wording it so that a maximum of 2 amplifiers can be hooked up to a single driver. using only(x) conductors.
-------------------- Brett Children of the Corn Team Mayhem Posts: 766 | From: iowa | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I think you're right on track Wayne. Only so much power can be pulled from one battery, so these Massively Expensive Monster amps that everyone is complaining about would do no good.
Since I am in Street Max, and this does affect me....my vote is to count the physical amp in the vehicle and be done with it. It's the simplest way for things be done and ELIMINATES ALL CONFUSION.
ps...as far as the part about too expensive for the competitor....I've been told numerous times by numerous competitors and forum visitors alike....If you don't have the money to play the game.....then you picked the wrong sport.
Let's get these rules finalized so we can get our build on
Good Luck to All Competitors this year and I'll see you at finals
posted
Personally I am for the unlimited amps in street. It would make it the easier on the judges and there would not be any contrversy on what amps are legal and which are not. Like wayne said. Street is not a starter class by anymeans. ITS WORLD WIDE and the most compeititve. People also have to take into consideration where they will put amps in certain vechicles which is a big deal.
If unlimited amps is not the solution I feel counting pyscial subwoofer amps in the car. If you see one.. Its one!
posted
I can understand wath you are trying to do Wayne, But i dont think that counting the number off physical amps is the faire solution. and that this wil create as much discution as last year.
Because: a little example. The SPL 4000, is this one amp ore 2 ??? For me that are 2 because you have to link them outside off the heatsink and they have 2 sets of power end 2 sets of output connectors. Others will say they are not, because the are in one heatsink. So now my questtion: What is the Spl 4000 To you as judge? 1 or 2 amps ???
could this be answered please?
-------------------- Proud member off: -Stef's Crazy Team
WR Street A 2005: 155.3 dB Euro Champion 2006 SS 1-2 NW: 161.1 dB Belgian Champion 2006 SS 1-2 NW: 161.6 dB
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: In addition, competitors could bridge multiple, smaller (cheaper) amps to produce the same effective power as the large monster amps that are currently permitted. As an added benefit, competitors could start off small (with only a single amp) and could add on to their system as the season progressed.
Wayne, thats right but you have to consider that running a amp at high impendance effects that the amp needs less power to produce the same power as if the amp is running at low impendance.
I hope you know what I mean. That could have fatal consequences. Rich competitors would take many amps and let the amps run at high impendance (2 or 4 Ohms). I know that therefore you need other coils but that would work. You could take 4 huge amps and a sub which has dual 8 Coils. So you have more watts effectively because your amps needs less power to produce the same watts.
posted
I am not familiar with the SPL Dynamics amp. Your argument is intriguing however. Initially, it sounds like two amps bolted together. However, just saying "it has multiple power connectors" does not necessarily imply that the amp is two amplifiers. Many large amps have multiple power connectors wired in parallel on the PCB because of their large current consumption. I will ask that our rules committee comment on this.
With regards to the higher impedance loads. Power is power. If you double the load impedance, you halve the amount of power that is delivered by the amplifier. Maybe I am missing the point.
The bottom line is that we need something that is simple and elegant and as fair as possible (to competitors AND manufacturers). I also don't want to severely impact the competitors who have already invested in equipment to compete in these classes. But I need to wrap this up right away.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
Multiple power connector can indeed be found on other single amps. AS amps 2000x for instance,
But this amp has 2 separet sets of output connectors (2 x 4 connections) unter eachother. And to sets of signal cabel inputs. And have to be linked externaly to be used as 1 amp So these are 2 amps not?
maybe it's a goe idea to post a claer explenation of how you judges see 1 physical amp.
-------------------- Proud member off: -Stef's Crazy Team
WR Street A 2005: 155.3 dB Euro Champion 2006 SS 1-2 NW: 161.1 dB Belgian Champion 2006 SS 1-2 NW: 161.6 dB
posted
i saw we go with the unlimited amps rather than just limiting quantity and counting physical units.
with unlimited amps it is cheaper and gives competitors more options rather than buying huge and expensive double amps just to keep up.
if rules will change i say we go unlimited
--------------------
2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified 2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified 2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified 2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified 2008 Street B - 156.6 Certified
TEAM FEAR OF BASS Posts: 3611 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Has anyone actually tested this higher impedence thing?
-------------------- Team Custom Team Powerbass Team Powermaster Team Ascendant/Fi Team Soundigital Posts: 604 | From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
If there cant be a solution for the double amps , then make it back unlimited amps , its easyer to put them in the car . There size is smaller .
I really dont care anymore , dont start crying there will be a 160+ in street this year . I am going to stop argiuing now .
-------------------- Team Cactus Sounds platinum member
posted
yes we will need a new measuring system next season again, the scores from street C are not going to be same as SS 3-4
--------------------
2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified 2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified 2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified 2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified 2008 Street B - 156.6 Certified
TEAM FEAR OF BASS Posts: 3611 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
One problem that I have already pointed out with this proposed setup is that there is a great advantage to be gained by using thwe smallest woofers allowed ina class. Street B is allowed (1)15, (2)12s, (3)10s, or (4)8s. If you where to allow unlimited amps and used the current conductor rule someone using the (1)15 could only use two amps were someone with (3)10s can have as many as six amps.
-------------------- Team T3Audio Team Cactus Sounds 2008 - Second in N. America 2009 - N. American Champion http://www.myspace.com/getlouddesigns Posts: 1272 | From: StreetMaxville, NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by loud_aurora: One problem that I have already pointed out with this proposed setup is that there is a great advantage to be gained by using thwe smallest woofers allowed ina class. Street B is allowed (1)15, (2)12s, (3)10s, or (4)8s. If you where to allow unlimited amps and used the current conductor rule someone using the (1)15 could only use two amps were someone with (3)10s can have as many as six amps.
yep
-------------------- See you in the lanes,
dBSteve Get Loud Productions LLC Posts: 8603 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Team_DD_Peter: No you cnat run 6 amps of 4 conductors . Street B
The conductor rule is based upon number of subs not class. You are allowed 2 conductors per sub.
-------------------- Team T3Audio Team Cactus Sounds 2008 - Second in N. America 2009 - N. American Champion http://www.myspace.com/getlouddesigns Posts: 1272 | From: StreetMaxville, NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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