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i was visiting my local curcuit city to get a price on a item the other day , when i was asked what i was lookn for and what i was gonna use it for they got interested in tring to sell me something lol, well here goes , i was told to use 1 gauge wire and 4 capicitors on the amp i was inquring about, iasked why use caps they dont do good for spl he said your wrong he continues to argue they up your voltage he said , i laughted yeah right , so he preceeds on telling me extra batteries are horse hockey that caps will do me better with a stock battery and stock alternator,cause a stock electrical system produces 12.9 volts and with me adding 4 1 farad caps i should be around 14 volts , again i grinned and said you have a nice day and thanks for nothing, were may we ask do these guys get there traing,just askn ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so for all you spl guys we are doing all wrong according to curcuit city insataller here in anderson sc
-------------------- ear drums are very over rated
r.i.p. greg welch
2005 dbdrags bassrace world finalist 120-129.9 3rd place finish Posts: 956 | From: somewere in time | Registered: Nov 2001
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Skip, that is some funny $hit. They don't get training. The sit behind a computer and read the screen that is it. Not all, but most of those guys dont know jack about car audio...
Jason
-------------------- **In Loving Memory of Greg Welch**
II Grad, June '02 Posts: 858 | From: Asheville, NC | Registered: Jan 2004
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Well let me start out by saying that you misspelled Circuit. Anyway just cause one guy failed to make a valid point, that does not speak for the rest of us. I am a circuit city installer and a damn good one if you ask me. I have been competing since I was 15 (now 24), went to Mobile Dynamics when I was 19 and got MECP certified( with a 99%) and then got some really good hands on training at circuit city by some of the best Installers in the business. And that guy was kind of right, stock alternators usually put out about 13-14.5 volts and 4 farads would definately keep it up there, but multiple batteries would be better, but keep in mind extra batteries also put a bigger load on the alternator, caps have less internal resistance so with a stock alternator they can be better- but not for engine off listening. for SPL you would want to keep your voltage as high as possible when loaded down and only with a steady supply of charge from an alternator would keep caps at that high level, with enough batteries, oh say like 16 ( my car), it would take a serious load to get them to drop below surface charge 16.4 for mine 12.6 for normal batteries. My batteries still drop to about 13.5 volts when butping my 8 1501ds but with a steady supply from an 18v 300 amp alternator the stay pretty constant above 16v. My point is it's all in the charging system ei alternator, batteries and caps only support the lack of a good or undersized one. Batteries can be better than caps but 30 farads with a stock alternator is better than like 4 optimas anytime. And just because one guy at Circuit City is dumb doesn't mean we all are. Best buy calls us all the time asking technical questions, and the local shops always have customers with screwed up install coming to us to fix em.
Ed Lester 2003 dB Drag Racing World Finalist SS 1-2 156.3 dB personal best 168 dB on old termlab 2 RFLs 8 1501Ds
Posts: 33 | From: u.s.a | Registered: Sep 2003
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He is saying in a SPL Setup that batteries are ALOT more important then any damn capacitors are!!! And he is one hundred percent correct!!! You take your 30 farad cap and give me those four optimas and lets see who is louder... If you seriously believe in the whole cap thing then we all understand why you are still at Circuit City!!! By the way the local shops have probably fixed more of Circuit City's screw ups then you will ever fix of theirs if it is anything like it is here. They usually think you only have to hook up on coil of a dvc sub around here...
Blake aka-LILMAN
-------------------- Blake Gordon Team B.Y.O.B. 2000 Jeep Wrangler 2003-DB Drag Finals 4th Place-154.3 2003-DB Drag 3rd Place Points Champion 2003-H.O. Alt. Street Rookie of the Year Posts: 243 | From: Midwest | Registered: Jun 2003
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O.k. I was not saying caps are better for big systems but for a street type setup they can be. With a stock alternator (say 90 amps) and an amp that draws say 150 amps the voltage drops low enough to where the alternator stops being the power supply and the battery takes over. Caps and batteries both store power but caps can be recharged quicker so when that power dips, the batteries will keep dipping and the caps will stay level because they are being charged. And I gauruntee I can get louder with 30 farads compared to 4 optimas with an otherwise stock electrical system, but why would I make that comparison, let's see, CAUSE I TRIED IT, the result SLAPSHOW 156.6 dB with 1 15" RFL 4 1501Ds 30 farad cap stock battery and alternator, with 4 batts and no cap-155 dB. And it may be different at the CC near you guys but up here we are the cream of the crop and no other shop has ever even touched a car I worked on this I am 100% positive, I know the local shop employees and we talk about that all the time. Sure some shops have dumb people, but there are alot of different shops that have dumb people, Mom and Pop shops, Best Buy, everybody it just depends on the area, so don't generalize, you may be dumb too. And the only time I heard of only wiring 1 vc on a dvc sub was from Tweeter across the street. SO my point was that I do agree batteries are better ( afterall alot of batteries are cheaper than a hell alot of caps) but not in every situation. If you do the tests yourself you can figure this out so go experiment. Also I am only still at CC because no one else can pay me enough.
Posts: 33 | From: u.s.a | Registered: Sep 2003
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i must say sorry and apoligize to chris for this gettn in his thread , i was typing out and when posted i didnt pay attention to were it went , once again sorry chris, far curcuit city guy here posting , iam saying not all is as lame as this guy was ..........................
-------------------- ear drums are very over rated
r.i.p. greg welch
2005 dbdrags bassrace world finalist 120-129.9 3rd place finish Posts: 956 | From: somewere in time | Registered: Nov 2001
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This is too funny. Even though you may be a good CC guy doesn't mean all of them are. And calling out Best Buy is doing the same as someone else calling out CC. When you did your test what mic and all was this on. Was it at the same time meaning right behind each other or different days and all? There are a lot of reasons your score could have changed between the tests. One of the problems with capacitors is their discharge rate. In an SPL enviroment caps can become the enemy. The time it takes a cap to release it's reserved power compared to the time it takes for the mic to actually read the SPL is way off. I believe the old Termlab and AC took a reading every 0.4 seconds and a cap discharges in milliseconds. Once a cap discharges it tries to recharge itself, this becomes resistance in the power line. And since you are supposed to put caps as close to the amplifier as possible that would be resistance right at the amp, not a good thing for SPL. Now I think this post is hilarious as it shows the type of people that these stores employ. As with most of the chain stores I have went to over my 13 years in car audio, they do not have specialists on hand. It's great that you have the certifications that you do, even though those are just pieces of paper in my opinion. The great thing about the mom and pop shops is they got there through experience, not a piece of paper.
On another note. Hopefully a moderator will move this to the general section as I believe this is where it belongs. Thank you for your time.
As Chris would say, "Silly Fockers".
-------------------- Walkin' the dogs, and leadin' the puppies
posted
To trouble, all of my testing was on the same AC meter, both setups 2 hrs apart, both tests with brand new recones, same temp in car every time, 3 burps each setup-4 batteries 154.9,155,155 with 30 farad cap 156.6,156.3,156.5, pretty consistant. now when I added 4 more amps and the other sub, the car just stalled out with both setups, with my 16v battery setup things got much better.
To Audiobuffru1 I know that guy sounds lame and we are not all like that I just got defensive when my training was questioned, I have atleast 8 years of experience as my training 3 before CC, and unfortunately not everyone at CC has that, some shops are just different. but if you want to share funny stories, a salesguy at another shop (won't name names) told a customer to buy Rockford amps cause they're the only ones that use MOSFETS, which according to him stands for More Output Signal and fet is a kind of chip. In my opinion this guys boss should slap him. I wonder if he knows that my headunit has MOSFETs, and so do Rockwood amps, and pretty much everything else. But this guy also thinks if a pregnant girl has sex she can get pregnant again. How do stupid people like that get hired anywhere. Anyway we SPL guys should not argue, we're a rare breed, and not many people I ever talk to seem to know what I am talking about either. and also I forgot to even ask what amp were you inquiring about, cause if it was one we sell, we don't really have anything big enough that would require upgrading the electrical system, the closest one is the 1501d but we don't even stock it anymore, not enough demand, the only type of people that need amps like that are us and we get stuff discounted or off the internet, atleast thats the way it is up here. Just not a big market for it, I think I'm the only SPL competitor for Miles, maybe I should move. I'll just drive to Hawaii and setup a shop on the beach.
Ed Lester 2003 Db Drag World Finalist SS 1-2 156.3 dB
Posts: 33 | From: u.s.a | Registered: Sep 2003
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I work at cc also. It is a good place but like he said not everyone knows everything, but that everywhere and it always will be. The only thing i was woundering is when did cc start carring rockford fosgate. I have only been with them for a year and the only thing we have is mtx and audiobahn. If so I wounder if we get a discount because I would mind the 1501's at all.
-------------------- (2) audiobahn awt12x sub's (2) audiobahn a18001dt amp's (2) efx 1200 gel cell's 6.5 cubic feet 110 inches of port tuned to 38 hz Posts: 55 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Dec 2003
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ahh the old mtx my bad. lol its 2 in the morning and i need sleep.But i dont think we even carried those since i have been there they are last years but we did have some of the thunder series.
-------------------- (2) audiobahn awt12x sub's (2) audiobahn a18001dt amp's (2) efx 1200 gel cell's 6.5 cubic feet 110 inches of port tuned to 38 hz Posts: 55 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Dec 2003
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i know some of the current installers have some good sence to take this too heart , but it was so funny to know that there are still installer like this one i came upon, which in my area is not rare to find these type of guys who installed steroes, these guys now doing installs and alot fires have been reported and i have fixed alot bad installs , any more stories would be greatly appreciated to show humor umounst us splers , well soon i will have new spl car out and about thanks for understanding ,i still hear stories or even encounter some these days ........
-------------------- ear drums are very over rated
r.i.p. greg welch
2005 dbdrags bassrace world finalist 120-129.9 3rd place finish Posts: 956 | From: somewere in time | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
i install at circuit city, and for the most part, the people on the sales floor dont really know much more than what they read in the owners manuals.
circuit city does 10x more installs than just about any local shop so having a problem with their installs is obviously going to be more frequent than one from a real car audio shop.
if you are so serious about car audio, then why are you even looking at circuit city?
Posts: 429 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by RFL equipped: No, I am located in south easter Pennsylvania, near Philly
rfl which ccity are you at i'm ay the service center in bristol????
-------------------- 2006 Bass Race 149.9 World Finals 2nd place H.O. Alts FI If you dont like what I have to say, just contact Boomingcreation he will erase it for you Posts: 16057 | From: tx | Registered: Dec 2003
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Look if you going to CC for answers on audio your chances of getting the correct one are slim. and for the good installers that they do have, well they are just that, good. If your in the business and have been at cc/bb for over 5 years, you really not going to get any respect from any owner of a sucessful 12v company. then comes mobile dynamics, had to fire one of those guys, they knew absolutely everything, and screwed everything up also, so let's say nothing! then there is the mecp geeks. i want an mecp installer (master or first class ) to come work with me for a while, I gaurentee the only thing that they will teach me, actually they will just reassure the meaninglessness of mecp.
and as for audiobuff, you might only be a step ahead of the salesman you talked to, but please don't think you were correct either, the salesman was wrong, you, and rfl were also or partially correct.
And I, by know means am an authority either, however , in the real world which we live in, I know a few things about 12v.
posted
never thought i was better, it was a funny story to tell , i was reffered by a rep to get a price from local store ,easy to order from them and is closer he said . in all my 20 years fooling around with car audio ,this was funny to hear from someone who quote they have been doing it for same amount of time, for whom which isnt a day over 20 him self ...................
-------------------- ear drums are very over rated
r.i.p. greg welch
2005 dbdrags bassrace world finalist 120-129.9 3rd place finish Posts: 956 | From: somewere in time | Registered: Nov 2001
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