posted
Within the next couple years I'm going to have to get a different vehicle. I want to do a high output system and it seems HLCDs are the only real option for high output at high frequencies. I've never had HLCDs in any of my vehicles but I do use horns in my home system and have messed with them in various pro/home setups quite a bit.
I'm wondering what are some good vehicles to hold horns under the dash?
I'd want to have some fairly large ones that could operate down to 800 Hz or so. The car would also preferably be able to hold either a 10" in the kick or a 6" in the kick and 10" in the door. Ideally, it would also be a vehicle that gets 30+ mpg and is available used for under $5k (can't be too new).
Any recommendations?
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Late 90's Honda Accords seem to be your best option.
Personally, I do a big midbass, an efficient 5 1/4" midrange and a big format tweeter. Much easier to tune and get to sound right
If your goal is just volume, disregard and do the HLCDs (I'm not saying that HLCD can't sound good, just that you will spend longer getting them to that point)
posted
tens in the kick? mmm you must be Martin I have a dream lol cant remember any vehicle that have the space but for in the doors late 90's honda as Andy Jones said, good luck on that
-------------------- 95 GMC SAFARI [ASTRO]4 MMATS JUGGS 15'S 4 MMATS D3000.1 24 CUBES 240 SQUARE INCH OF PORT @35 HZ 155+ TL ON THE DASH IN A STREET SETUP Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. Rita Mae Brown Posts: 103 | From: British Virgin Islands | Registered: Sep 2008
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Early 90s Accords would be better than late 90s because of the dash shape. Civics are good too. BMWs work well too.
I think I could get 10s and horns in the kick of my Accord. I know I could if I made the midbass baffle removable. Depending on how concerned you were with aiming the speaker, you might could get 12s down there.
Tony Pasquale had horns and 10s in the kicks of his M3.
Horns for me are easier to tune than conventional drivers.
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7993 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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posted
We do a shallow 10" in the passenger kick of all the Porsche Boxster's that come to our shop. but of course that's just one sub on one side.
Posts: 5501 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
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Here's a pic I found of a kick in a Dodge It might be real?
Posts: 5501 | From: Columbus, OH - formerly FL | Registered: Oct 2003
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Back in 95, I had a 92 Ford thunderbird, with Image Dynamics CD-2's under the dash, and 8" IDQ midbass on the floor, below the HLCD's and 15" IDW's mounted beneath the rear deck in a IB configuration.
Man, those were the "good ole days"........
-------------------- Michael A. Nauta TEAM CACTUS SOUNDS Proud former member of TEAM KICKER 2000-2001 Street 3-4 2002-2004 Super Street 1-2 NW 2006-2009 Street A 2010 ??????????????????
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And if I can get a hold of a 92 or 93 convertible camaro, I will mount a set of HLCD's in the dash firing straight up at the windshield.
-------------------- Michael A. Nauta TEAM CACTUS SOUNDS Proud former member of TEAM KICKER 2000-2001 Street 3-4 2002-2004 Super Street 1-2 NW 2006-2009 Street A 2010 ??????????????????
posted
Got something similar going on in my car right now.
quote:Originally posted by manauta: Back in 95, I had a 92 Ford thunderbird, with Image Dynamics CD-2's under the dash, and 8" IDQ midbass on the floor, below the HLCD's and 15" IDW's mounted beneath the rear deck in a IB configuration.
Man, those were the "good ole days"........
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7993 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by winslow: Got something similar going on in my car right now.
quote:Originally posted by manauta: Back in 95, I had a 92 Ford thunderbird, with Image Dynamics CD-2's under the dash, and 8" IDQ midbass on the floor, below the HLCD's and 15" IDW's mounted beneath the rear deck in a IB configuration.
Man, those were the "good ole days"........
Did I mention, that I also had an old school Clarion 9255, ID Rack mount pair of mono EQ's and X-over. I tried an AP membraine on the subs, but with really not much of luck.
But with the subs crossed at around 60, and the midbass from there, I have yet to hear a stronger front stage, especially with a drum track, and as far as low bass, back then I was a a cig smoker, and I would watch the smoke dance while I played something with real low bass.
Man, like I said, those were the "good ole days".
It almost makes me want $hit-can my Street A CRX and go out and get a Thinderbird again, but when I remember just how much I spent back then, I say that is alright.
Please indulge me in remanicing: Clarion 9255 IDQ 31's IDX 24 X-Over 2 PPI A100.2's bridged at 8 ohms CD-2 Comp HLCD's 2 PPI A300.2's bridged @ 8 ohms IDQ 8 Midbass wired to 8 ohm mounted in the floorboards 2 PPI A600.2's bridged @ 8 ohms 2 8 ohm IDW 15's mounted beneath the rear deck
The horns and the midbass grills were covered in black velour speaker grille cloth, and the rear deck was rebuilt to look stock, with the subs firing through acoustically transparent black carpet.
So my car was not about flash, especially if one remembers just how the plain the 9255 was, that was the only thing one actually noticed in my car, without giving the interior of the car a second lookover.
Again sorry for the long post, I guess I was just having flashbacks.......
-------------------- Michael A. Nauta TEAM CACTUS SOUNDS Proud former member of TEAM KICKER 2000-2001 Street 3-4 2002-2004 Super Street 1-2 NW 2006-2009 Street A 2010 ??????????????????
posted
my front end played from around 60 on up to as high as the HLCD would play.
So yes in my strictly SQ setup the horns and the 8" midbass, would then replace, a set of Midbass, Midrange and Tweeter setup.
But remember my midbass were in a sealed enclosure in the floorboards, not just in the door, and that is not to say that you cannot make a set of midbass in the doors sound as good, but it will take some work to get them there.
-------------------- Michael A. Nauta TEAM CACTUS SOUNDS Proud former member of TEAM KICKER 2000-2001 Street 3-4 2002-2004 Super Street 1-2 NW 2006-2009 Street A 2010 ??????????????????
posted
Thanks for the suggestions up to this point. This is still in the early stages of planning. The goal is definately not just loud, and I have considered going the dome/mid/midbass route, but I just don't think it's going to cut it. My usual listening volume is around 100 dB (A-weighted) RMS, but now and then I like to crank it up to 110-115 dB. Factoring in 10-15 dB of crest factor for music, the system should be able to hit peaks of 125-130 dB... yes I realize this is a bit over the top, but that's my goal.
For a midrange I have something like a B&C 10MD26 in mind, or maybe something a little less sensitive in the midband with more excursion. Compared to the highest efficiency 4-5" mids, this is still ~5 dB over the top, and the 3" coil will handle about 4x the power for a given amount of thermal power compression.
The issue is making it fit. Cutting the floor and welding a box in on the back is something I'd be ok with, but I'd prefer to avoid that.
Jason and Michael- do you have any pictures of your setups?
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Instead of IDQ8s, I am using the new ID xS69s. Yeap 6x9s. Basically the same cone area as an 8 but much easier to get in my car with how I made the kicks. They are about 94 dB 1w/1m. I will have a Zapco Reference 1000.4 bridged on them giving about 500 watts per midbass. The 69s are nice b/c they have neo motors and a **** ton of BL in the gap. Eric tells me it is what an IDW8 would sound like if there was ever such a thing. And they say practically no power compression either. And the oval cones have less modal problems than round speakers...a really flat FR. But I don't think they will pound like my old IDQ8s did. But I could be wrong since I haven't had the whole thing fired up yet.
The subs are on a bridged Zapco Reference 750.2 with similar power as the midbasses. I do have a pair of Zapco Z600C2s that I would put in the car if I could find a third one...that would be really old school.
The horns are on a HSS Fidelity class A all tube amp. Processing right now looks like a Zapco DSP6, though I have a Rane RPM88 that is modded for 12 volts. I'm using Beyma CD755nD drivers on my straight horns. Some ideas from Dr. Geddes's work might be in there too, but I'm not saying in public which and what lol.
I went and tried fitting my JSL 2204s in the kicks...eh, I wouldn't be able to make it look nice and would probably sound like poo. 10s would go though.
I have pictures of the trunk and tube amp installed...but none of the front yet. Getting ready to put the new carpet in the car tonight. So I could have pictures of atleast one side done tomorrow. The most recent pictures I have of the horns are from SVR in 04, but it looks pretty much the same minus the PHL 8s that were in the kicks for midrange.
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7993 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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-What years exactly are "early 90s" and "late 90s?" - Are all of these years of Civics ok as well? - What are the ups/downs of using a Civic instead of an Accord? - Is there a preference 2 door or 4 door? - Are there any problems with models that have a sunroof?
Also, Andy, when you say efficient 5" mid, how efficient are we talking here? I've had a hard time finding something in the 95 dB 1w/1m range, but I could just be looking in the wrong place. And with the 5-1 setup, do you have both of them in the kicks?
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7993 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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posted
90-93 Accords have a shallower dash than years later. 94-96 are good too.
92-95 Civics are the most sought after. Easy to work on and shallow dash. 96-98s aren't too bad either.
Civic is a tad narrower than an Accord. Parts are easier to find. But those years are the most popular for the street racer guys too. With some cutting and welding, it is possible to do horns, 5s, and 8s in the kicks of a 92-95 Civic- Shoei Garage in Japan built one that way that won IASCA Finals in 2000.
I would think 2 doors would be more prized b/c you can put stuff in the side panels...stuff like EQ/processor, fusing, etc. 4 doors will be cheaper.
Only thing about a sunroof without a cover is it will cause some reflection issues. Randy Kunin ran into that problem with his older white Accord. With that being said, near all of those cars have a vinyl roof. One of the first things I would do would be cover that sucker in some headliner material.
A HE 5" driver will be severely bandwidth limited.
quote:Originally posted by Rybaudio: Any pics yet?
Some further questions about the Accords/Civics:
-What years exactly are "early 90s" and "late 90s?" - Are all of these years of Civics ok as well? - What are the ups/downs of using a Civic instead of an Accord? - Is there a preference 2 door or 4 door? - Are there any problems with models that have a sunroof?
Also, Andy, when you say efficient 5" mid, how efficient are we talking here? I've had a hard time finding something in the 95 dB 1w/1m range, but I could just be looking in the wrong place. And with the 5-1 setup, do you have both of them in the kicks?
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7993 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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So I've been looking at some interior pics of Civics... I can see how horns would work well in there. For example, here's a decent pic of the interior of a 94:
One question I do have is if the clutch pedal really gets in the way of kick panel mounting with the manuals or not? For the kicks do you have to cut into the metal anyway? I'd prefer to get a manual but that's something I'm more than willing to sacrifice in the name of sound.
The 5" would be strictly for midrange. One thing I can't quite see is if the Civic doors have room for a big (8-10") midbass if the kicks don't work? I'd like to keep the system 3-way for simplicity but I am flexible.
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Yeah, clutches are the evilness for car audio crazy goodness.
Most Hondas have a pocket down in the kicks that yuo can cut to gain some extra space.
Steve Head has done 10s in the doors of that year Civic...did them in Jason Syner's first install.
Shoei Garage in Japan has minihorns, 5s, and 8s all down in the kicks. Horns and 8s would be easy-ish to do in that car. 10s should be do-able too. But Shoei cut a lot of metal and rewelded a lot back in the car. Have some behind the scenes build pictures of how they did the kicks.
-------------------- Team Image Dynamics/Zapco/Werewolf/JK Lab Team Kinetik Sick Bastard Audio SQ Who feels it knows it Posts: 7993 | From: Charlotte,NC USA | Registered: May 1999
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