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Hey, I'm pretty much decided on PG amps now...best combination of power, crossovers, outputs etc...maybe not the best thing for pure uncolored sound but I think they are what I need.
So unless there is something I don't know about these...Ti500.4 times two...is there any reason to look at the MS series over these...they can be had online (dangerous, I know) for what looks like good prices. Titanium's I would get at a local shop I think.
MS2125 for the components (would not be biamped) and MS2250 for the subs...these are the tenth anniversary models, white, with plexi bottom. I do need something with RCA pass-through outputs and a solid crossover, however...the Titanium's have 24db/octave which I really like.
Can anyone suggest why i should NOT get the Titaniums, and why the MS would be better?
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There is an individual named Brian Gowan, he goes by bbeast. He post here very rarely, but does post at Carsound a good bit. He uses the Ti amps, and has used Phoenix Gold products for years, I would contact him and get his opinion.
I have Ti amps in my truck. I have two Ti500.4's and a Ti600.2 amps myself. I also have a DEQ Comp as part of my system. I have had the amps for a little over a year. They are working just fine for me. Do you want to have a SQ or SPL system? I like having the 24db slopes in the Phoex Gold amps. I bought my first PG EQ back in '95 and it still is used in a system to this day. I don't know a lot about the MS line but if you want SQ than go with the Titanium line of amps. Good luck with your choice and see ya in the lanes.
-------------------- Brian Gowan IASCA AMA Ult 1-300 IASCA Judge COM0003454 IASCA Finalst'93,94,95,96,97,98,99,00 USACi CON Advanced 151-300 4th place '98 Finals 1001+ '98 SE Region Points Champ Finalst '94,95,96,97,98,99,00 USACi Install Judge USACi Mini SPL B15+ Sony ES CDX-C910,CDX-C91 Phoenix Gold Ti500.4,Ti600.2, TiDEQ Diamond Audio HEX Mid Bass, Mids,Highs,Mac Daddy 10.4 Stinger HPM wire,Dream Series RCA's Optima Yellow Top "Have fun and take the family" Posts: 51 | From: Ozark, Alabama | Registered: Aug 2001
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well, I'm using PG MS series amp, and I wouldn't sell them to get the Titanium line. Why, because they are overbuilt, monoblock construction (not the Titanium), and are powerfull. My headroom is incredible, with two MS2250 on my front components....
where can you get the ms amp on the internet, I'm just curious.... Dave
-------------------- Make it Ntense!
Premier DEX-P1R Pioneer Voice Control Phoenix Gold MS1000 Phoenix Gold MS275 A/D/S/ PX Tweeters Digital Design W6.5 Custom Fit enclosure with no sub in it... Electrical system: Phoenix Gold Battery: Optima yellow top All in a Pontiac T/A Posts: 196 | From: Trois-Rivieres, Canada | Registered: Apr 2000
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Also, there's no crossover built-in the ms amps....I'm using a DEX-P1r with all the crossovers built-in the head unit.
This might be a downside, but keep in mind that the MS series were made to do one thing: Amplifying.
-------------------- Make it Ntense!
Premier DEX-P1R Pioneer Voice Control Phoenix Gold MS1000 Phoenix Gold MS275 A/D/S/ PX Tweeters Digital Design W6.5 Custom Fit enclosure with no sub in it... Electrical system: Phoenix Gold Battery: Optima yellow top All in a Pontiac T/A Posts: 196 | From: Trois-Rivieres, Canada | Registered: Apr 2000
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Thanks guys. Yes, I'm aiming for a high level of SQ. The MS series, and Ti amps, are available from www.woofersetc.com . That would mean that they have a warranty through that company but no factory warranty from PG...do you see this as a major problem? I would be saving about $500 buying online.
What kind of features do the MS series amps have? A couple things I like about the Ti's are the 24db/oct crossover, as well as the pass-through rca's. I may not daisychain at this point but having the option certainly increases flexibility. I've heard that the Ti's don't have a gold-plated circuit board like the MS does, I don't know if this makes a difference.
I WAS somewhat set on biamping my front stage (a/d/s/ 346is ) so the Ti500.4 seemed a good idea. I'm not sure what the trade-off is between biamping with 75 per driver vs. more headroom with 125 to the whole set, as with an MS2125.
By the way they are listed with a 24db/oct crossover on woofersetc.com website...is this a misprint?
As for the warranty, well, the PG MS serie are well built, I've never had any problem with them.
As for the Xover and pass through RCA, well, it depend of how you'll them, and what kind of headunit you have. Now, most HU has built-in crossovers...HPF and LPF, which I like because you can set them when driving.
-------------------- Make it Ntense!
Premier DEX-P1R Pioneer Voice Control Phoenix Gold MS1000 Phoenix Gold MS275 A/D/S/ PX Tweeters Digital Design W6.5 Custom Fit enclosure with no sub in it... Electrical system: Phoenix Gold Battery: Optima yellow top All in a Pontiac T/A Posts: 196 | From: Trois-Rivieres, Canada | Registered: Apr 2000
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you won't see a difference if you bi-amp them, unless you have time-alignment. You'll see a difference if you bridge the 500.4 to 2 channels, or if you use a ms2125...
It should be a misprint because there's no built-in crossver in the MS series amp.
-------------------- Make it Ntense!
Premier DEX-P1R Pioneer Voice Control Phoenix Gold MS1000 Phoenix Gold MS275 A/D/S/ PX Tweeters Digital Design W6.5 Custom Fit enclosure with no sub in it... Electrical system: Phoenix Gold Battery: Optima yellow top All in a Pontiac T/A Posts: 196 | From: Trois-Rivieres, Canada | Registered: Apr 2000
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Okay, that's what I thought based on what you said, that there would actually be no x-over. This is the problem buying online. Let's try that again anyway, it's www.woofersetc.com maybe I typed it wrong the first time.
If I were to get MS2125TA and MS2250TA to power my components and subs respectively, if they have no crossovers I'd have to go active...right now if that's the case I guess I will stick with the Ti amps because of the 24db/oct internal crossover; I also like their ability to pass-through connect to other amps. Good combination, and maybe you're paying for looks and name but...one of the best I've found so far anyway.
How underrated do you guys find these amps to be?
Would you suggest two Ti600.2's, one for the components (no biamping) and one for the subs, as opposed to two Ti500.4's, one biamped to the components and the other bridged to the subs?
posted
I wish I had the link, but when a magazine tested the PG Ti amps last year, they were pretty much rated right on. The 600Ti put out something like 640 watts. A little bit underrated, but not enough to really call them "underrated".
Posts: 232 | From: Coeur d' Alene, ID | Registered: Jul 2000
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just buy what one has the most features/power to the amount of money your paying...if you don't clip the amps you wont hear a difference
Posts: 3421 | From: Owosso MI, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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I have got to say that the Phoenix MS and MPS series of amplifiers are some of if not the best amps that were ever made. Not only were they incredibly clean and transparent they were also insanely powerful. They could run high current mode if you wanted all day long. I have experience with the MS-275, MS-2125, and the MS-2250. If you can find them in good working order I would say that they are worth every penny. Thanks. Mark Fenske
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Obsession is the word the lazy use for Dedication. Posts: 323 | From: Wausau, WI | Registered: Jan 2000
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I like the fact that I can biamp the 500.4's and the 24db slopes. So if you were to get a 600.2 and a 500.4 you could run it like this. Run your RCA's from your head unit into the 600.2, then out of the 600 into the front input of the 500. This will give you a 48db slope on the top of the sub and the bottom of the mid bass. Then 24db slope on the top of the mid bass. Also 24db slope on the bottom of the mids. Then use passive x-over between the mid and tweeter. I started out with this set up before I added another 500.4 With the 24db slopes in the 600.2 and the 500.4 will sum the x-overs to give you the 48db if you want to use them like that.
-------------------- Brian Gowan IASCA AMA Ult 1-300 IASCA Judge COM0003454 IASCA Finalst'93,94,95,96,97,98,99,00 USACi CON Advanced 151-300 4th place '98 Finals 1001+ '98 SE Region Points Champ Finalst '94,95,96,97,98,99,00 USACi Install Judge USACi Mini SPL B15+ Sony ES CDX-C910,CDX-C91 Phoenix Gold Ti500.4,Ti600.2, TiDEQ Diamond Audio HEX Mid Bass, Mids,Highs,Mac Daddy 10.4 Stinger HPM wire,Dream Series RCA's Optima Yellow Top "Have fun and take the family" Posts: 51 | From: Ozark, Alabama | Registered: Aug 2001
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Well, the people at woofersetc.com say that the MS2125TA and MS2250 are brand new, so good working order, I'd say so!
Brian, I like your idea about biamping and summing the crossovers...just to get this straight, though: the aux. output on these amps is full range? With it's own crossover? I wish I could download the PG manual, but I can't for some reason. Anyway, so you'd configure the output crossover to 24db/oct high-pass, and then the same again on the input side of the 500.4. Then I'd run that out to my components on all 4 channels, using passive's thereafter? Sounds like a plan to me!
I'm still deciding between the 600.2 for my subs and a bridged 500.4. Not sure which. I believe the output on the 600.2 is rated at 150x2, yes? Do you find you are getting more power than that? The subs will be 4ohm SVC...how do you have yours?
The 600.2 is rated at 75x2 at 12.5 Vdc. The 600.2 does have outputs to run into the second amp. I have one Diamond Audio Mac Daddy 10.4 on my 600.2 When you use the outputs it sends signal from x-over point on up. Then on the 500.4 you would use the front inputs on the amp. The bottom of the rear channels will sum with the top of the 600.2 There are so many was to set up the 500.4 that it would a long letter. If you want to send me your e-mail I will send you the info on the 500.4
-------------------- Brian Gowan IASCA AMA Ult 1-300 IASCA Judge COM0003454 IASCA Finalst'93,94,95,96,97,98,99,00 USACi CON Advanced 151-300 4th place '98 Finals 1001+ '98 SE Region Points Champ Finalst '94,95,96,97,98,99,00 USACi Install Judge USACi Mini SPL B15+ Sony ES CDX-C910,CDX-C91 Phoenix Gold Ti500.4,Ti600.2, TiDEQ Diamond Audio HEX Mid Bass, Mids,Highs,Mac Daddy 10.4 Stinger HPM wire,Dream Series RCA's Optima Yellow Top "Have fun and take the family" Posts: 51 | From: Ozark, Alabama | Registered: Aug 2001
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Well! My PG Ti500.4's came in today...I am really glad I bought these babies. I've never seen an amp birth certificate before. Of course they meet/exceed all rated specs, but it's really interesting to read them. One amp's total power is 549.04W, with front channels bridged to 274.51 and the rears bridged to 274.54. These amps are rated at 500W total, 250 a side. So that is cool...interestingly, the other amp is almost dead on, with a total of 502.08, with the the front and rear channels bridged to 250.32 and 251.75 respectively. I don't exactly know what S/N ratio (A-weighted) means, I know it has to do with factoring out some noise/distortion from the S/N ratio, but one amp is 143.44dB and the other is142.75dB; they are rated at 100dB. Again, just interesting.
I am planning to put the more powerful amp on my front stage, because I think that it should really make my a/d/s/ components sing! I can't wait to get my subs (Oz Audio Matrix) delivered, should be at the end of the week!
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