quote:Originally posted by mikendthemekanix: WHATS THE DEAL WITH THAT???
I thought people could only hold 1x show with a usb term lab
i have been too 3x shows 2x show and both used the usb and both had different people running the show
maybe thats why the scores are all over the place at 2x and 3x shows
Nopi 3x and Rock island shows both had very wacky things going on with the mic's
I am one of the biggest fans of the Termlab, but at the last two shows I would have to agree that I have been less that pleased with what I've seen out of the mics consistancy wise. I don't know what is causing it but I think it needs to be looked into, people are getting pretty upset right now.
-------------------- KCG Team Maxxsonics Posts: 1425 | From: Centralia, IL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I would also have to agree. I love the termlab, but there is no consistency from one to the next. Wayne keeps doing updates etc, and I think that is the reason for the differences. I am open to info from Wayne on this subject though as I just want what we had last year....consistency. You would expect that considering the way they are doing shows this year.
posted
I assume that all 3 of you guys must have results for shows that are not on the website yet because it doesn't look like any of you have competed in events for 2004. It is hard for me to analyze this complaint when I don't see a basis for it.
I believe that we have demonstrated that the USB system is right-on with respect to the .NET system.
If the scores are different, then there could be a problem with the equipment, the meter settings, or your system. If you have a concern with regards to this matter, please call me at 800-655-0010.
I need to know where the event took place and who officiated it.
I have moved this thread to the Term-LAB forum.
[ 06-07-2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Harris ]
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I assume that all 3 of you guys must have results for shows that are not on the website yet because it doesn't look like any of you have competed in events for 2004. It is hard for me to analyze this complaint when I don't see a basis for it.
I believe that we have demonstrated that the USB system is right-on with respect to the .NET system.
If the scores are different, then there could be a problem with the equipment, the meter settings, or your system. If you have a concern with regards to this matter, please call me at 800-655-0010.
I need to know where the event took place and who officiated it.
I have moved this thread to the Term-LAB forum.
I HAVE 54 POINTS IN 2004 AND THE TWO SHOWS WHERE ROCK ISLAND IL 2X 2 SUNDAYS A GO THE OTHER WAS CORDOVA IL NOPI 3X THIS PAST WEEKEND
-------------------- Street MAX 1-2 (2006) 155.2 certified
Street B (2005) 152.4 certified
Street A (2004) 150.8 certified
Posts: 451 | From: oshkosh wi | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Sam, your mics are high! Now your sensors, they are dead on
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8928 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
We tested on several USB's at the show and all were .4-.6 higher than the score in the lanes. We then tested on Vernon's USB and did the exact same score as we did in the lanes on Sam's meter. Vernon then informed us that he has his K factor lowered to equal what he would do on Sam's meter. I have no problem with this! Please understand that. But, I did a 147.0 on Sam's meter at Mobile and a 147.1 on the USB at the same show so I did not complain. There is a difference now. I am unsure why the chanmge? I know that some people have certifieds on different meters and then came to Sam's show and were down a bit. I think that climate affects our scores, but not the termlab....just to clear that issue up.
Sam, I brought the mic issue to your attention 4 years ago and I was absolutely correct about the issue. I brought the issue to your attention this weekend because a few competitors approached my team during testing and asked if our results were down in the lanes. I can not explain it, that is why I asked. I commend you on your attention to the matter. I felt that you did everything possible to verify the settings and reliability of the equipment. Thank you.
I love the Termlab, don't personally own one, but have 2 in possession of the team. Both read almost identical and we have never had issues over .1 difference. Yet, at SVR this weekend we had .4-.5 for no appearant reason. But, our #'s were the same on our Termlab in Ohio as they were at the show in WV.
posted
Tom Adams made a post regarding the electrical supply going to the TL at SVR. I think this may have been the culprit. We will be testing this theory tomorrow by loading chargers and the TL on the outlet at the same time. I will request that Steve Mick test this as well as Traffic Jams in Lancaster. If this is the case, then in the future nothing should share the power supply with the TL at certified events. Wayne, can you try this test as well? Test before and after extra loads on the power supply. At SVR Sam had his tower and all of his accessories and about 6 competitors chargers on the same distribution box. This would prove no fault witht he TL which I am happy about, just help all of us be aware that the voltage must be consistent.
posted
wow i will test that out this weekend about the show, i can definately say that the meters didnt seem to be reading correctly, at least not with the readings i was gettting with my usb termlab
-------------------- TEAM PRODIGY http://www.sounddomain.com/id/poundin_firebird 2003 mic quatro champ 2006 meca m5 champ 160 2006 meca mr5 champ 155.8 2007 splmaxcup champ 2007 bass race 149.9 world champ CHAMP!!!! 2008 year of the rebuild, and rebuild and ...... got loud,but made the biggest mistake of my career at finals : ( Posts: 1345 | From: Ohio Valley | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
If judges are going to be changing the K factor on their meeters for any reason they should post a bulitin to all competitors with termlab mics to make the same changes on thier mics so they are all the same. And on our termlab meter, 120 power does effect the meeter by a couple of tenths. For example if I hook up a charger to the same power supply as the meter is running off of than the meeter will read .1-.2 low. And at the shop we test at we tired 4 different outlets and all where different. So for testing we use only the same outlet all the time so it stays consistant. A simple test you can do is have the meter running on peak hold inside of a car and get an average spl with very low volume, about 112db And then take the computer plug and plug it into a different power supply and then do the same peak hold test with the same track vol etc. We at our show from every plug was about 1-2 DB not tenths difference.
Posts: 1770 | From: elgin | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
The sensors are not suitable for SPL measurements under 120 dB. You should also be aware that the Signal to Noise ratio at SPL's this low is so poor that some deviation is normal. (The SPL readout will fluctuate +/- 0.5 dB or so.) The louder the score, the better the S/N ratio and the more "solid" the measurement becomes. By the time you hit 130, the scores will be pretty rock solid.
The Term-LAB system requires a suitable electical power source for proper operation. If you connect a bunch of battery chargers at the end of a long extension cord, the voltage drop will be significant. If the voltage gets too low, the system will not work properly. This is true for most types of test instrumentation. Battery chargers also induce tremendous amounts of "noise" onto the line. I do not know what type of impact this will have on readings.
To summarize, you should use common sense when using Term-LAB or any other type of test instrumentation. Keep extension cords as short as possible and restrict the use of the power to only the equipment in the judging tower. (Computers, PA, etc.) Use an AC voltmeter to verify that 120 VAC is present. (At one show, I actually measured 80 VAC at the end of about 300 feet of extension cables!)
I do not recommend a UPS as these devices can produce "noise" similar to a battery charger.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
well, i just got done doing the test, testing was done at 145-146db termlap plugged into its own outlet saw a 146.1 took it out and plugged it into a powerstrip with charger and others plugged in, it dropped to a 145.1, swiched it and the number went back up, switched it number went back down, i did this about 10 times, and each time there was at least a .4- 1db difference, and the only change was where the termlab was plugged in. also the setup i was testing with is capable of 150dbplus so its not like i was peaking out the system. everytime i chaned the plug the number went up or down, and it never did the oppisite of described above.
this also explaines why, i lost a bunch of spl from testing in my driveway, and when i got to the show, about 35minute difference, and i didnt change anything.
-------------------- TEAM PRODIGY http://www.sounddomain.com/id/poundin_firebird 2003 mic quatro champ 2006 meca m5 champ 160 2006 meca mr5 champ 155.8 2007 splmaxcup champ 2007 bass race 149.9 world champ CHAMP!!!! 2008 year of the rebuild, and rebuild and ...... got loud,but made the biggest mistake of my career at finals : ( Posts: 1345 | From: Ohio Valley | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
ok, now this is weird, i tried the same test again a few hours later, and now im seeing the same number either way, but i did test the voltage this time, and there is only about a 2 volt difference from plug to plug. 1 reading was 122 the other was 120 mind you i dont have a great multimeter but there obviously wasnt that big of a difference, i am going to continue to do more testing with this today. i will try to figure a way to bring the voltage way down. i will post my results again.
-------------------- TEAM PRODIGY http://www.sounddomain.com/id/poundin_firebird 2003 mic quatro champ 2006 meca m5 champ 160 2006 meca mr5 champ 155.8 2007 splmaxcup champ 2007 bass race 149.9 world champ CHAMP!!!! 2008 year of the rebuild, and rebuild and ...... got loud,but made the biggest mistake of my career at finals : ( Posts: 1345 | From: Ohio Valley | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I have come across a problem with the Term Lab NET and USB at the same show. I never had a problem with my USB at home testing but at this certain show I had a problem with the meter..... it was reading a high SPL number with no mic attached....so i put it away and got a .NET mic to try to test with and gues what same problem. Come to find out the BOX was to close to a battery charger and was interfering with the meters.... I could change the scores by simply moving the BOX closer or farther away from the charger.... Also seemed to be same near a pile of extension cords. Once relized this and moved everything apart BOTH METERS WORKED PERFECT! Thanks, Erik
-------------------- '98 Autotek's SPL Competitor of the Year '99 IASCA Overall World Champion '99 MECA Overall World Champion '99 DbDrag Overall Runner up World Champion '99 NSPL World Champion '99 USAC Runner up Bass Olympics World Champion '01 3rd Highest Overall Score at World Finals '04 Extreme 2 "Back in Extreme"
posted
As a owner of a USB system and 3rd in the world last year in points, I will say this:
A sensor is consistent
but
the mics are not cmpletely consistent across the board
By this I mean, if you own a mic, it will be consistent to the .01 assuming your stereo is consistent.
But I have run into different sensors that meter up to 0.7 different from one another.
The sensors are great and almost all are within 0 to 0.2 db of one another (an amazing feat without needing calibrations), but there are a few out there that are off
BTW...the 0.7 termlab.net sensor is 0.7 HIGHER than my USB sensor
-------------------- Chris TEAM B.Y.O.B. - "Bring Your Own Bass" 154.3 DB - JEEP WRANGLER!! (non-crx, non-crx box...thinking outside the box) 2003 DB DRAG WORLD FINALS - 4TH PLACE STREET B 2003 H-O ALTERNATORS STREET ROOKIE OF THE YEAR 2003 DB DRAG 3RD PLACE POINTS CHAMPION - 247 POINTS SAME CAR
Posts: 874 | From: Oklahoma City | Registered: Jan 2002
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