posted
As long as all amplifiers produce exactly the same output voltage, as many amplifiers as you would like can be hooked up in parallel to the load! However, this is not something you can do in a real world situation and have good results, nor SHOULD you do it. Also, its a waste of any amps over the 2 amplifier group per coil, because there won't be any additional power provided.
In order to provide more current and thus more power, the voltage of the signal must be increased. When you "strap" two amplifiers together they are set to 180 degrees out of phase, and this doubles the voltage applied to the load. (Not because they are out of phase, but because they are out of phase and both producing the same signal)
Adding more than two sources (the two strapped amplifiers correspond to positive and negative) won't be reasonable because it will not contribute any voltage increase to the load, and thus no power increase. (Plus, there is only positive and negative, you don't have any mysterious quantity in between)
The purpose of paralleling identical amplifiers is to minimize the current requirement of any of the individual amplifiers, however, I do not say "identical" lightly-- All the amplifiers must match very very well in order to do this without compromising the signal quality. Your average car amplifier or even good home stereo amplifier will vary much too greatly from unit to unit, even within the same brand and same model!
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It's all about knowledge, love and respect. Posts: 2579 | From: Somewhere In the Northeast | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Richard Clark said it's no different then strapping a 8 volt battery and a 6 volt battery together. Amps don't have to match. He was getting ready to post a schematic, but their forum is down
quote:Originally posted by ShadowStar: As long as all amplifiers produce exactly the same output voltage, as many amplifiers as you would like can be hooked up in parallel to the load! However, this is not something you can do in a real world situation and have good results, nor SHOULD you do it. Also, its a waste of any amps over the 2 amplifier group per coil, because there won't be any additional power provided.
In order to provide more current and thus more power, the voltage of the signal must be increased. When you "strap" two amplifiers together they are set to 180 degrees out of phase, and this doubles the voltage applied to the load. (Not because they are out of phase, but because they are out of phase and both producing the same signal)
Adding more than two sources (the two strapped amplifiers correspond to positive and negative) won't be reasonable because it will not contribute any voltage increase to the load, and thus no power increase. (Plus, there is only positive and negative, you don't have any mysterious quantity in between)
The purpose of paralleling identical amplifiers is to minimize the current requirement of any of the individual amplifiers, however, I do not say "identical" lightly-- All the amplifiers must match very very well in order to do this without compromising the signal quality. Your average car amplifier or even good home stereo amplifier will vary much too greatly from unit to unit, even within the same brand and same model!
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Posts: 1587 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Hello, I have an Audiobahn A12001DT that can be the Master Unit or the Slave unit. My undersatnding when I got it was, that if you strap to amps it is at 4 Ohms. If you are using a 2 Ohm Voice coil you should be able to take 2 Sets of (2) Amps that are at 4 Ohm and run them in Parallel to get a total of 2 Ohm for the 4 Amps. All that to one Voice coil and You better have an awsome 2 Ohm speaker to hold it. Hope that helps TR
-------------------- 1991 Eagle Talon Turbo
HU: Panasonic 903U Dash: Audiobahn 3" Componets Doors: Audiobahns ABC5002Q 5.25 Componets Rear Sides: Audiobahn 6.5 Co-Ax Rear Corners: Audiobahns ABC600T 6" Componets Subs: 4 10" Power Acoustik FUBR's (Dual 2 Ohm Coils) All Together 1 Ohm Box: 6.16 CuFt 4- 3" Ports Tuned to 33Htz Amps: (2) Audiobahn A2002T's Sub Amp: Audiobahn A12001DT at 1 Ohm Cap: Stinger SC201MNC 1 Farad Digital Cap W/ Digital Volt Gauge Wiring: All Stinger (SWK4 Kit) Posts: 40 | From: Springfield, MO | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I heard that there was 16 amps on a single Treo CSX at Audio Thunder at the beginning of the year. It set the No Wall record. Sub was absolutly anhialated. (SP) I won't say who it was so I don't get in trouble........all you have to do is some research.
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Posts: 2463 | From: A gravel pit in Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by RFLWagon: I heard that there was 16 amps on a single Treo CSX at Audio Thunder at the beginning of the year. It set the No Wall record. Sub was absolutly anhialated. (SP) I won't say who it was so I don't get in trouble........all you have to do is some research.
nall, never happened!!! 8 amps per driver
-------------------- SCA PowerBass USA T3 Audio Soundstream Car Audio Posts: 6636 | From: Buffalo, NY | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Audiobahn currently has 3 boards strapped internally in the spl5000 amps. I have a internal schemetic somewhere on how they did this and how the wiring is on a visonik v900xd to create the same output stage as the SPL5000. I just have to find it again
-------------------- Just some thoughts from a nobody. Posts: 3921 | From: Lakewood,Ohio | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by RFLWagon: I heard that there was 16 amps on a single Treo CSX at Audio Thunder at the beginning of the year. It set the No Wall record. Sub was absolutly anhialated. (SP) I won't say who it was so I don't get in trouble........all you have to do is some research.
nall, never happened!!! 8 amps per driver
I think It DID. Do you have pics of the truck??? I talked to many people about this and I know that there is a way. Unfortunastly the only gain is the ability to destroy woofers.
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Posts: 2463 | From: A gravel pit in Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Kicker 1250.1's can be strapped like this. Last I heard it was 8 amps strapper together on one coil. I don't know how long they lasted though. Ask Tracy and see if he can get you guys anymore info.
Posts: 3280 | From: North Little Rock, Arkansas | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Yeah it could have been BUT.........I was told by a VERY reliable source some one had figured it out. Doesn't matter who. The point is it can be done. But it is so unstable they won't let us know how. The gain doesn't out weigh the consequences......magic smoke.
-------------------- T3 Audio H.O. Alternators Team Soundstream 06 NW Champion
Posts: 2463 | From: A gravel pit in Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by jliehr: amps produce voltage, you can wire amps in series to produce large amounts of voltage. The trick is figuring out what the input and output grounds reference too.
Hmmmmm... now i think we are on the right track
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4253 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Does anyone have any good info regarding the RCA Signal/ground isolation that would be necessary in order to wire multiple amplifiers in series? I am very very intriuged by this idea
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4253 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Anybody else have any input on this? Anybody? I have come up with a few brainstorms of my own... and have actually come up with a way of strapping 2 "non-strappable" amps to a single coil. In fact, with this system, the number of amps you could wire to a single coil would be limited only by the impedance of the speaker. If you wanted to do 4 Crossfire 2000Ds For example, you would need an 8 ohm load. It does work though... and i have tried it We have already successfully strapped two Crossfire VR 202s to a single 8 ohm coil.
2000Ds are next on the list of amps to try though, as soon as i get some more in stock, and we work a few "bugs" out.
Like i said before though... I was just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts/suggestions on the idea?
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4253 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I really don't see the point. The question you truly want answered, is how much power can I get thru a single VC with a commercial amp. Answer: as much as you can afford. Design your own 50KW amp, make it available, and voila.
To do so in a ghetto manner, I doubt it. Like Shadowstar said, an amp is bridgeable because one output terminal is referenced to ground and the other carries the entire signal. We can now take a second amp(or channel) and use the output but 180 degrees out of phase as our second speaker terminal to get a doubling of voltage yet maintain the current limit. Once you have done this, the only other thing you can do is add amps in parallel, but any difference in signal and one amp will try to charge the other amp. Do not do this, simply buy a bigger amp.
Posts: 768 | From: Ottawa, On, Canada | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by emu: Once you have done this, the only other thing you can do is add amps in parallel
Thats not necessarily true, and thats not what I'm doing. Also, what happens if you are ALREADY using the biggest amps you can find? I guess I'm just trying to push the envelope a little more here....
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4253 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Like ShadowStar already explained, and emu tried to clarify, only two amps can be bridged together. There is no way you can do any more because of how AC electricity works. You can add more amps for a single voice coil but they would have to be wired in parallel.
Since a voice coil of a speaker has pretty much a constant impedance, 4 ohms for example, the only way to raise the power that it gets is to raise the voltage. The power that a voice coil will take is found using the ohms law equation P = V^2*R. The impedance of the voice coil is R, so to raise power(P) you must increase voltage(V). By strapping two amps, which is basically the same as bridging two channels of an amp, you can apply twice the voltage of what a single amp can produce, across a speakers voice coil. There is no way to strap more than two amps and make more voltage, because two amps already make the maximum voltage that possible by that model of amp.
You can have more than two amps per voice coil but the only way to wire them would be to have them in parallel. If they are wired in parallel the total voltage across the coil cannot be any more than the strapped amps provide.
To learn more about how bridging of an amp works, which is exactly how strapping of amps works, look here http://www.bcae1.com/bridging.htmPosts: 327 | From: Pleasanton & Sacramento Ca | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by ddstang: There is no way to strap more than two amps and make more voltage, because two amps already make the maximum voltage that possible by that model of amp.
Actually, this is NOT true, which is what makes me so excited about my discovery As far as Ohm's law and how bridging an amplifier works, trust me, I know.
The post I made wasn't really looking for answers, so much as it was trying to hopefully help people think along the same lines that I was... and possibly come up with the same idea that I did, without just coming right out and saying it.
Hmmmm.... Let me ask you 3 questions:
1) When you strap an amplifier (or bridge two channels of an amplifier), are you wiring them in Series, or Parallel?
2) What problems occurr when attempting to wire multiple amplifiers in series (it could be 2 or 20, the basic concepts still hold true)?
and the important one.... 3) What can you do to get around/solve these problems?
Anybody? Who else has input?
p.s. - please dont post again saying how it just "can't be done", cuz i already did it
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4253 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Originally posted by ddstang: There is no way to strap more than two amps and make more voltage, because two amps already make the maximum voltage that possible by that model of amp.
Actually, this is NOT true, which is what makes me so excited about my discovery As far as Ohm's law and how bridging an amplifier works, trust me, I know.
The post I made wasn't really looking for answers, so much as it was trying to hopefully help people think along the same lines that I was... and possibly come up with the same idea that I did, without just coming right out and saying it.
Hmmmm.... Let me ask you 3 questions:
1) When you strap an amplifier (or bridge two channels of an amplifier), are you wiring them in Series, or Parallel?
2) What problems occurr when attempting to wire multiple amplifiers in series (it could be 2 or 20, the basic concepts still hold true)?
and the important one.... 3) What can you do to get around/solve these problems?
Anybody? Who else has input?
p.s. - please dont post again saying how it just "can't be done", cuz i already did it
Quit giving me nipple hard-ons and tell me how...lol
What I don't see is how a 2 channel amp bridged can be placed in series with another bridged 2 channel amp. If you "seriesed" such 4 amps, would not 2 of them be lacking a ground? And since the current and voltage is switching you can't exactly give them a ground.... What happens when two of those 4 amps go looking for a ground AC wise?
Educate ma plz.
People have said that there are "...amps out there that can be stacked by the dozens..." are there?
-------------------- 2005 Florida Street C Champion 2004 SBN Street C Champion 2004 SBN IDBL No Wall Champion 2003 NOPI Nats Street B Champion
posted
You are correct in wondering about the grounds of the amplifers, that is one of the main problems with wiring amplifiers in series. The power/ground for each amplifer is relatively simple to isolate for each amp, you just need to have completely independent battery systems for each amplifier wired in series.
That brings us to the other, more formidable problem, which is signal isolation. Each amplifier must be fed a fully isolated signal. the reason for this being that there will actually be quite large potential voltages between each one of the amps.
Essentially, if you can figure out a way to fully isolate the rca signals coming into the amplifiers, you can then strap as many amps as you want in series.
Oh, and the cool part is, I even used all "12 volt, commercially avaliable products" too Nifty, huh?
If I get bored later I'll make some diagrams, better explaining why the signals need to be isolated.
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4253 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Originally posted by netlohcs: You are correct in wondering about the grounds of the amplifers, that is one of the main problems with wiring amplifiers in series. The power/ground for each amplifer is relatively simple to isolate for each amp, you just need to have completely independent battery systems for each amplifier wired in series.
That brings us to the other, more formidable problem, which is signal isolation. Each amplifier must be fed a fully isolated signal. the reason for this being that there will actually be quite large potential voltages between each one of the amps.
Essentially, if you can figure out a way to fully isolate the rca signals coming into the amplifiers, you can then strap as many amps as you want in series.
Oh, and the cool part is, I even used all "12 volt, commercially avaliable products" too Nifty, huh?
If I get bored later I'll make some diagrams, better explaining why the signals need to be isolated.
I'm not sure what you mean by isolated, but wouldn't the signals being fed to the amps need to be perfectly identicle? I mean, say you split one RCA output at both right and left RCA signals evenly between the two amps. They are getting identicle signals... Is this isolated?
Or do you mean isolated in that each RCA set's sheild has its own ground? Im confused on the isolated part...
Question - does strapping of two bridged two channels to one coil afford more power to the coil? Some of the above arguements were saying to do so would be useless?
-------------------- 2005 Florida Street C Champion 2004 SBN Street C Champion 2004 SBN IDBL No Wall Champion 2003 NOPI Nats Street B Champion
quote:Originally posted by Bumpin' Yota: I'm not sure what you mean by isolated, but wouldn't the signals being fed to the amps need to be perfectly identicle? I mean, say you split one RCA output at both right and left RCA signals evenly between the two amps. They are getting identicle signals... Is this isolated?
Or do you mean isolated in that each RCA set's sheild has its own ground? Im confused on the isolated part...
Question - does strapping of two bridged two channels to one coil afford more power to the coil? Some of the above arguements were saying to do so would be useless?
By isolation, what I am referring to is complete seperation of the signals, i.e. there is NO continuity between the grounds of any signals going into the amps, and NO continuity between the signals themselves for that matter.
Strapping an amplifier in series is fundamentally the same as simply wiring batteries in series. The only difference is that batteries produce DC voltage, amplifiers produce AC voltage. Think of the amplifiers as "batteries" that you are attempting to create the largest potential voltage from. You wire them in series to increase voltage, thus increasing power delivered to the voice coil of the speaker.
-------------------- Nate Scholten Team Sounds And Motion SS 1-2 3rd place 2004 finals -THE BUILD- ~Our Drinking Team Has A Stereo Problem~ Posts: 4253 | From: Rhinelander,WI | Registered: Dec 1999
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