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Originally posted by Thumpin:
wow killi.... you've got a lot to say about a subject that doesnt really concern you.

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Actually it does concern me alot. For the simple reason is that from day one of my competition history I have taken the rules as they were written and competed with them. I have yet to hunt and look and search for any "grey area" that would allow me an advantage over someone else like many competitors have in years past. It is of a great concern to me when the rules are fine tuned to help eliminate some of the grey areas and places the competitors in ANY class on a more level playing field.

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Everyone, read the definition of a pro in the 2002 rules section, and vote NO to the rule saying pro's can't compete in the street division. There is a seperate division for the amateures and entry level competitors but then they don't allow pro's or people with sponsorships to compete in the pro division of the street class

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Now i dont post here much, but i have been on the boards reading for a while. Matt why is it you always have something to wine about when it comes to street class. You have been around enough that street class should mean nothing to you. You competed in super street before you ever competed in street. So why wine and cry about whether pros are allowed in street class. You won finals in street one year and you got beat at finals another. You have already suceeded in the street class. Get off your ass and move back to SS. And dont go crying about you cant be competitive in SS cause you cant go buy another vehicle to build. Cause it would seem to me that anyone that can put their car in storage can sell that car that they dont depend on, to buy something else to compete in. so quit your damn crying and move up to SS. You cry about you cant afford to go to super street but you obviously can if you were there once before not to mention im sure you dont pay anything near retail for any of the equipment you buy or have bought.

Also i think the way wayne wants the street class to be is for the people who try the amatuer class and decide they want to compete and go to finals. Not for the veterans of DBDRAG to sit around in a class that isn't for them. If you can't deal with not being able to play in the street class then RETIRE. i am sure i am not the only one that is tired of this whole street **** anyway.

[ 01-26-2002: Message edited by: TerryJackson ]

[ 01-26-2002: Message edited by: TerryJackson ]

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Thumpin, I find it hard to believe that a former world champion and holder of multiple world records, who has also been in a magazine feature, pays retail for his equipment, especially when he is associated with a shop (Sweet Sounds). I'm not saying you're lying, its just hard to believe. If you're paying retail, then you evidently haven't talked to the right people.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Thumpin:
for one, i'm not whining. for two, it was my opinion and many others that wayne was making the street class for the veterans and the amateur class for those that were testing the waters. Maybe i'm wrong, but that was my understanding. And by getting beat at finals, the judges beat me, i didnt get beat by anyone else because I wasn't given a shot.
as far as being able to afford a car to put in storage and have another one, you know what i drive in the winter? an 82 s10 that I paid $200 for. And as far as paying far below retail, i pay pretty close to retail actually.

[ 01-26-2002: Message edited by: Thumpin ]

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How could you pay close to retail? Associated with a shop/world finalst/world champ...I know you got your ID SPL's before anyone else did. I use to envy you, which says a lot...and it led me in the right direction. But can you honestly say you pay "almost retail"? Its all good if you're drivin an 82 s-10, my dad bought me a $150 dollar broken down CRX that's just chillen in the garage. Not to mention the first car he helped me buy was a 1990 geo storm. I didn't even have a winter car. I think you and Terry should work something out off the boards...but i will be game for a lil s1-2 challenge if Terry comes down

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I totally dont understand how someone can argure about a rule that has been in place for a year now. It was determined that finals atendees would have to move to a SS class last year. How is that so hard?

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What "I Totally Don't Understand" is why it is "So Hard" for people to understand that a lot of people want a limited cost, limited vehicle mod, and limited power/woofer size class to compete in, either because they like the challenge of attempting big numbers with serious limitations, or because they can't afford the money/time/vehicle to destroy - that any of the SS classes require.(No offense, Nate!)

When the 'Must-move-up' rule was written, it was written with regard to the only existing nubie/beginner class, now there is a new nubie/beginner class that wasn't in existence when the 'Must-move-up' rule was written last season...it's called the Novice class, not the Street class, so why would a rule which was designed to protect the nubie class from 'experts' still exist for a non-nubie class? - Just because it was written last season? ?

Changes are just that, changes, and many people belive that this also should be changed, and should not apply to a non-nubie class.

...There will always be some who are stupid, too stupid in fact to ever build anything loud and therefore also afraid to move up to a SS class, but that is no proof that EVERYONE who wants to compete in a Street level class is afraid to move up or stupid, maybe they are stupid and afraid, or maybe they aren't stupid or afraid at all, but just want to be in a 2-12" woofer class BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY LIKE!

Personally I think it is wrong to isolate those who do well from the class where they do well IF there is now a new beginner class in place below the class from where those people are being isolated.

And what difference does it make if the people who were invited to finals last season aren't able to 'compete' in the Street class this season, if they are helping to build another winning Street system this season for someone else, it's still their expertise putting that car at the top...

jmo-

This is from the "Thumpin" post, just thought it belonged here also -

_________________________________________________________________

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It just takes a little more effort and ingenuity.

BTW....these are my opinions and mine alone and do not necessarily relefect the opinions of my other teammates.

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If you can afford to have some of the amps that were used at finals in street class then having amps for SS 1-2 NW is not an issue

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Craig, one D2 is $500 new or so, 8 BD1500s like Chris Howard had is around 8-10 times that much IF you can find them for wholesale.
1 does not equal 10.

Quadcoil 18s do not equal ID Max 12s

40 batteries does not equal 1.

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Originally posted by Q:
Killi:

Craig, one D2 is $500 new or so, 8 BD1500s like Chris Howard had is around 8-10 times that much IF you can find them for wholesale.
1 does not equal 10.

Quadcoil 18s do not equal ID Max 12s

40 batteries does not equal 1.

Cutting a large hole in the rear wall of a truck is not the same as building a box which can be removed.

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D2=$500 new...or $300 used off termpro
Who said he needs quad coils? I'm sure a couple companies would be more than willing to throw a few woofers his way (if some already haven't). 40 batteries? I think Chris norris and Joe (SicSPL) only uses that many! lol

You gotta admit Matt has to have opportunities for full ride sponsorships at his hands! Only he would know though

Personally, if i were him...I'd try to move up a class. It isn't always about winning. Hell, just keep the setup you've got now...but try a couple more amps and see what #'s you do in ss1-2nw?

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Originally posted by Q:
Killi:

Craig, one D2 is $500 new or so, 8 BD1500s like Chris Howard had is around 8-10 times that much IF you can find them for wholesale.
1 does not equal 10.

Quadcoil 18s do not equal ID Max 12s

40 batteries does not equal 1.

Cutting a large hole in the rear wall of a truck is not the same as building a box which can be removed.

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Ah...I agree that I D2 doesn't match 8 BD1500's however what does 1 Zapco 4KW equal in terms of price and money spent?

You cry about you cant afford to go to super street but you obviously can if you were there once before not to mention im sure you dont pay anything near retail for any of the equipment you buy or have bought.

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Oh really? then why the average "Super Street" competitor at finals spend well over $25,000 for the 2001 season? No excuses here buddy!I've seen your scores. looks like you didn't spend much.

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the excuse thing was not in regards to you. and no i didnt spend much. didn't compete much either but i figure 8 shows for my first season was plenty. Now as far as 2002 goes i plan on being a force to recon with in ss5-8.

oh almost forgot during the 2001 season what show did you start using the caravan?

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Originally posted by THE-SCRAPER:

Hey mr jackson? Do you pay mr bradsoy's salary?do you know his financial situation?Who are you to decide who can afford what? whats obvious? I was in SS 9+ last year(2000) AND SS 5-8.I never paid retail for my equipment last year and still spent well over $15,000 competing in street 1-2 for 2001.no offence dude but get off brandsoy's back.[/QB]

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Originally posted by ea1:

Am I the only one of the only few who see a problem with spending 15k to compete in a ENTRY LEVEL class. That should be the biggest red flag ever for us that unless we make HUGE changes, we will never draw new blood into our sport.

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Originally posted by TerryJackson:

oh almost forgot during the 2001 season what show did you start using the caravan?

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: TerryJackson ]

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Originally posted by THE-SCRAPER:

ea1 if you have ever competed in street and qualify for finals you'll understand.

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Umm... lets see.. he has an EXTREME VEHICLE>. I am pretty sure he spent a LOT of money.. especially where he is. Mike hughes is in the same state as Nate(NM) and I know mike has said he drove an average of 450-600 miles per show. Now that is hauling a 9K lb van. so DRIVING a STREET car to a show is NOTHING.

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Originally posted by SPL Jester:

and I totally agree with him on this.. if people want to stay in the entry level class after winning world finals, and competing at finals year after year... then go to usaci or idbl.

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Originally posted by SPL Jester:

Umm... lets see.. he has an EXTREME VEHICLE>. I am pretty sure he spent a LOT of money.. especially where he is. Mike hughes is in the same state as Nate(NM) and I know mike has said he drove an average of 450-600 miles per show. Now that is hauling a 9K lb van. so DRIVING a STREET car to a show is NOTHING.

and yes nate is on top of things.. and I totally agree with him on this.. if people want to stay in the entry level class after winning world finals, and competing at finals year after year... then go to usaci or idbl.

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I've been around for a while and have seen this for many perspectives:

We need to grow:

1) Have a class where people who have the TIME and the DRIVE but not the CASH to compete on a world class level!

2) Rules need to be enforced

3) It takes a LOT more to build even a NW car than a street car. I had a NW crx, comparing it to Matt's street car, it has 3x more into amps, 30% more into subs, 6x more into batteries, hours of modification to the car, and costs roughly $250 PER SHOW more to compete with. (trailer, tow vehicle, etc)
Not to mention the $15,000 cost of the tow vehicle and $2000 for a trailer. But hey, who's counting?

Over a full year, that is (tens of?) thousands of dollars.

4) Find a good set of rules and quit bitching about them after they are finalized. Wait till the next year and fix what you didn't get right the year before.

5) A novice class, one that has no opportunity for a "pro" to advance in is a GREAT idea that should have been implemented last year when we talked about it.

6) Judges need to receive training, at all levels

7) There should be a class at finals that doesn't require more than $5,000 to be COMPETITIVE.

8) Bad rules, or rules that really no longer apply to the current situation, should have NO bearing on the current season.

9) Dividing or limiting classes based upon Pro or novice is a TERRIBLE idea that we banished a few years ago. Doesn't anyone remember how much bitching it caused? If you have a class that goes to finals, it HAS to allow pros. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to FULLY enforce those kind of rules and we ALL know it.

10) Commercial vehicles don't belong in novice or street. I'm suprised it wasn't worse this past year.

That's about it for this year.