"Amplifiers that are constructed in such a way as to circumvent the amp quantity limitation may be prohibited from use in this division or may count as multiple amplifiers. Please visit http://www.termpro.com/dbdrag/rules/rules1.html for more information."
How is this defined? Multiple power connectors? Multiple boards? Multiple heat sinks?
Are these amps legal: US Amps USA-6000 SPL Dynamics EXT4000D Trutechnology SH-1 Audiobahn A5000SPL
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
posted
What is the problem we are trying to solve here? Street cars having way too much power, power is too expensive for "the street people". I agree, we do have a problem.
But this is not the way to solve it. Lets assume that we ban multiple board amplifiers. After that JBL/Crown 6000 will be the most powerful amplifier, there is also the soundstream 5000w. I'm sure there will be other new amplifiers soon to fit the rules.
Will the power / cost issue be solved? No... This will just be extra money and time spent for manufacturers building new models to fit the rules. Who is going to pay for this, the consumer - "the street kid".
It makes a lot of sense to use existing parts to make new amplifiers, why make a new board and heatsink just for dB Drag?
This is the only thing I can think of to limit the cost and power: Street A: 1 amp, 2 conductors, amp must be strappable. Street B: 2 amps, 4 conductors, amps must be strappable. (or 1 non strappable amp) Street C: 4 amps, 8 conductors, amps must be strappable. (or 2 non strappable amps)
This will keep SPL Dynamics EXT4000D and JBL/Crown 6000 out of street A. You would still be able to use SPL Dynamics EXT2000D, the new Rockford 3000, and similar amps. It will effectively cut the used power in half.
PS. Many thanks to the people working on the rules, it must be very hard to make the rules fair for everyone. Just a couple more adjustments and we are done
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
quote: This is the only thing I can think of to limit the cost and power: Street A: 1 amp, 2 conductors, amp must be strappable. Street B: 2 amps, 4 conductors, amps must be strappable. (or 1 non strappable amp) Street C: 4 amps, 8 conductors, amps must be strappable. (or 2 non strappable amps)
And what about amps that were just never strappable like the Earthquake D2 and D3, the Zapco 9.0, the Memphis Mojo, and many others that have been used for years and would now be illegal under this new system. I am not trying to shoot your idea down either, just trying to point out a possible flaw.
-------------------- Team T3Audio Team Cactus Sounds 2008 - Second in N. America 2009 - N. American Champion http://www.myspace.com/getlouddesigns Posts: 1236 | From: StreetMaxville, NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by dBSteve: this is a great first step.
thanks for posting a list of amps
IMO, amps like Zapco 4kw, JBL 6000 Crown and RF3000t should not be allowed in the street classes because of both price and power.
There is not a perfect way of doing this, I hope Wayne can do something fair for everyone.
In the case of a 4kw, it has 4 conductors so with the new rules I see no advantage in having a 4kw over 2 9.0's. I feel a 9.0 is a vary streetable amp.
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jani K: This will keep SPL Dynamics EXT4000D and JBL/Crown 6000 out of street A. You would still be able to use SPL Dynamics EXT2000D, the new Rockford 3000 , and similar amps. It will effectively cut the used power in half.
the RF 3000 is strappable.
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by loud_aurora: And what about amps that were just never strappable like the Earthquake D2 and D3, the Zapco 9.0, the Memphis Mojo, and many others that have been used for years and would now be illegal under this new system. I am not trying to shoot your idea down either, just trying to point out a possible flaw.
This is true, these older amps would be out of street A, but legal in B and C. But they would be underpowered compared to largest amps like JBL/Crown 6000 or a pair of RF 3000's.
Do I remember correctly that the new mojo is strappable? You could use that.
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
quote:Originally posted by Team BIO-Zac: the RF 3000 is strappable.
Yes, and you would be able to use it in street A.
However JBL/Crown 6000, US Amps USA 6000, EQ D3 and other similar amps would be out of street A. These amps would be legal in street B and C
So you mean to tell me that you would be able to run a 3000 watt RF but you couldn't run a 2000 watt Zapco,1000 watt Mojo, or a D2 2000 watt in that class with that rule? That just doesn't make good sense...
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Team BIO-Zac: So you mean to tell me that you would be able to run a 3000 watt RF but you couldn't run a 2000 watt Zapco,1000 watt Mojo, or a D2 2000 watt in that class with that rule? That just doesn't make good sense...
Well, true. But this makes more sense than current rules (2nd draft), you can use a JBL/Crown 6000 in street A, but not US Amps USA 6000 or SPL Dynamics EXT4000D. Does that make sense?
We are getting a little of the point here, the main issue is that amplifiers should not limited out of the competition just because they are build a certain way. We should try to limit power and cost. But it seems to be impossible task...
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
posted
You guys just don't get it do you? A JBL/Crown will not work in a street car, a USA-6000 will not work in a street car. Wayne wants to properly count amps that were built specifically to circumvent db drag's rule on number of amps.
These amps include, but are not limited to: Zapco 4kw(considered 2 amps) SPL Dynamics EXT-4000D(2 amps)
Whether an amp is strappable or not DOESN'T MATTER!
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8934 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Making the amp requirement for Street A, having to be strappable serves what purpose? You will only limit the amps that can be used by the "new guys" that everyone seems to be concerned with. There is no one solution to this "keeping pros outta street" dilema. But with what Wayne has come up with looks to be good.
Sorry but if I "have" to have a strapable amp just to be in street A then forget it. I'll take my toys elsewhere along with my comp team and $$.
-------------------- Driven By Sound Team Gates
2004 Spring Break Nationals 3rd Place - Street A
2003 2nd Loudest FL Street A Certified 149.4db 2003 FL State Record Holder
2002 Loudest FL Street 1-2 153.1 db Certified 2002 FL Points Champion Street 1-2 2002 FL State Record Holder 2002 World Finalist
quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: You guys just don't get it do you? A JBL/Crown will not work in a street car, a USA-6000 will not work in a street car. Wayne wants to properly count amps that were built specifically to circumvent db drag's rule on number of amps.
These amps include, but are not limited to: Zapco 4kw(considered 2 amps) SPL Dynamics EXT-4000D(2 amps)
Whether an amp is strappable or not DOESN'T MATTER!
No, I do understand that. Its been proven that a JBL/CROWN needs more juice then street A can provide. I feel no worries over a street a or even a street b car with JBL/Crowns. I was just pointing out the short comings of his proposal
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: You guys just don't get it do you? A JBL/Crown will not work in a street car, a USA-6000 will not work in a street car. Wayne wants to properly count amps that were built specifically to circumvent db drag's rule on number of amps.
These amps include, but are not limited to: Zapco 4kw(considered 2 amps) SPL Dynamics EXT-4000D(2 amps)
Whether an amp is strappable or not DOESN'T MATTER!
No, I do understand that. Its been proven that a JBL/CROWN needs more juice then street A can provide. I feel no worries over a street a or even a street b car with JBL/Crowns. I was just pointing out the short comings of his proposal
The proposed rule is aimed at amplifiers which are obviously two whole amplifiers dumped into one heat sink. Such as those mentioned and the US Amps US6000. Those are obviously two whole amplifiers stuffed together. They have two set's of power wires, grounds, remote turn ons, RCAs, and all other terminals. Everyone knows that it is a pair of 3000s in one larger heat sink. Those amplifiers should count as two amplifiers because that is what they are. They don't need to be in the street class. This won't effect what the consumers are paying for amplifiers that want to compete in the street class because no one is actually buying these amplifiers at a retail level.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
cool, but this proposal affects more then just the "2 amps in one case"... From the sounds of things Wayne has already made a rule to circumvent the "2 amps in once case" problem. He will just ban the offending amps.
-------------------- Posts: 1074 | From: Ione, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Ok, this is getting out of hands, we should not argue what amplifiers are allowed and what are not.
The issue is that there is too much power available in street classes. Is the new rule going to solve it? No, there will be big single chasis / board amplifies that will be allowed. I belive some of the "banned" amp manufacturers will rework their amps to fit the rules, just extra time and money wasted...
Again, you should not ban amps because they are build a certain way. We must try solve the issue with too much power, and that is very hard. I cannot think any simple way to do that.
As for JBL/Crown not working of one battery. It may be true with current models of the 6000. But if SPL Dynamics can make two 4000D's work of single battery, it find it hard to belive that JBL/Crown could not do the same. They just need to modify the protection circuitry to allow more voltage drop.
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
quote:Originally posted by -=ALL4SPL=-: Sorry but if I "have" to have a strapable amp just to be in street A then forget it. I'll take my toys elsewhere along with my comp team and $$.
X2
-------------------- www.IMAGEdynamicsUSA.com "I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal." - Ron Burgundy Posts: 495 | From: The "O.C." | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Ok, I take the strappable-issue back. The rules should not be changed in that part. I was just thinking about Finnish market, here strappable 2000W amps are easy to get and common in competitor circuits. I did not consider the whole picture. We should not ban old amps just because some new and more powerfull amps.
The best ruling would in my oppinion be the original: Street A: 1 amp, 2 conductors. Street B: 2 amps, 4 conductors. Street C: 4 amps, 8 conductors.
No limits to how the amps are build because it is not going to solve the problem with too much power.
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
posted
Since we have limitations on the number of amps that can be used in the Street and Street Max divisions, it is important that we accurately count the number of amps that are actually being used.
For example, if a manufacturer takes 2 amps and bolts them together, then the new "amp" should count as 2 amps. This doesn't ban the amp, it just insures that it counts for what it really is.
I have a pretty good idea of which amps need to be added to this list. Now, I would like to hear from you.
Thanks in advance.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Since we have limitations on the number of amps that can be used in the Street and Street Max divisions, it is important that we accurately count the number of amps that are actually being used.
For example, if a manufacturer takes 2 amps and bolts them together, then the new "amp" should count as 2 amps. This doesn't ban the amp, it just insures that it counts for what it really is.
I have a pretty good idea of which amps need to be added to this list. Now, I would like to hear from you.
Thanks in advance.
Zapco 4kw (2 amps) Spl Dynamics EXT-4000D (2 amps) New 5000w Soundstream Amp (2 amps) US Amps USA-6000 (2 amps) SPL Dynamics EXT-5000D (4 amps) Tru Technology SH-1 (2 amps)
[ 02-02-2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Broken Silence CC - Johnny ]
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8934 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Broken Silence CC - Johnny: New 5000w Soundstream Amp (2 amps)
To me that one looks like a 2 channel single board amp. Is it?
Sorry, I'm repeating myself, but if we rule like this we will leave door wide open for the JBL/Crown 6000. We will make people change their amps to more expensive, is that good for the sport?
-------------------- Team LOUD - Jani SS1-2 164,4 dB's 2002 - 2004 European champion and loudest SS1-2 on the planet 2001 Street 3-4 European champion
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