One.. vans should be allowed in street max and have walls. I for one have a van yes, and it has been in the family since 1980 and used alot since. It has been a daily driver since also racking up more then 460,000 miles from then till now.
Two.. Not all vans are for hard core, yes I built a couple walls, but also out of those I have used all but one amp and two subs in each. Hard Core ? I think not, but yes got semi loud and I was amazed. Saying goes from before. All in Install.
Three.. I have seen and heard mini trucks with walls and no walls, louder then my van and others with about the same equip, if not more. So I don't see why there would be or could be a difference.
Four.. it was stated by yourself and others. Room isn't what counts, Install counts. And not to mention. Look at the rules again. Limit on amps,batteries,subs. Think for one second that a van could still out do a mini or other car ? No.
Five.. Yes I know this will come up. I am new to DbDrag, but have always loved car audio and bass. I have gone to a few comps and enjoyed them and plan to do a few dozen more here this year. No I don't have a memebership, but I again do support DbDrag and all those in it.
I will end by saying I am a nice person and very easy going, but when things come up of this nature. It is nothing more then silly and childish. So I feel it is nothing more then right on my part to say a few things.
Thank you for reading and DbDrag will always be around with or without your support.
posted
For the love of god will someone post the box of tissues???????
All this whining is making me want to vomit.
Do you really think that after this little display people will WANT to come to your shows???? I know I wouldn't.........UNLESS I was REAL hard up for some points.
Anyone that threatens to not hold shows unless rules go their way isn't a REAL supporter of DB DRAG. A real supporter would state thier opinion and leave it at that. In closing.......You got no LOVE for this sport man........DON'T hold the shows.
-------------------- T3 Audio H.O. Alternators Team Soundstream 06 NW Champion
Posts: 2463 | From: A gravel pit in Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I am not whining, I am a man of great conviction and I am simply debating my belief with you on this issue.
Don't you believe that a person should stand up and fight for what they believe is right? I don't agree with this decision, and I have given you all several aspects of my thought process as to why I don't believe in it.
I view this issue from the same level of perception as the newbie's that DB Drag wants to attract. You can't overcome that perception without first drawing them in and your not going to if you make them feel threatened like that.
I have talked to an EXTREMELY large number of people that don't currently compete but are very interested in starting to this year about this issue and several others. I've been bouncing these changes and ideas off of people not connected with this sport to see what would interest them and what would cause them to shy away from competing. I'm not whining, I'm reasoning and explaining. I'm planning on spending a lot of time and effort on shows this year so you can damn sure bet that I have been keeping my finger on the pulse of the very market that we hope to attract to these shows.
The street class is pretty good to go, but we will loose a lot of potential new competitors to the Street Max class if these things are allowed.
Go ahead and continue on with harsh juvenile insults if you will. That is not what I am here for, and I don't see where it is productive in discussing this issue logically.
How about some of you who are so adamantly opposed to what I'm saying come back with some rational and logical discussion about the issues which I am bringing up. Which is the perception of the market that we are trying to attract to DB Drag, instead of berating me because you want to compete in this class with your van, or your buddy with his van.
If we are going to discuss this, let's at least keep it on a professional and courteous level. Resulting to making remarks about whining or speculation about people wanting to attend events is just counter productive and in my opinion does not belong in this or any other forum.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Why is it that the majority of the people contributing to this thread other then me either are or have been Super Street Competitors? I just looked through the statistics of everyone that I could and read through the statements of those involved again, and it doesn't seem to me like there are really any street competitors or new people other then one or two of you so far that have been involved in this now two page long thread.
To me it makes it sound even more likely that Super Street is a class where seasoned competitors from DB Drag hope to jump into it and take advantage of the rules to dominate a class that was proposed as a street class with some modifications to make it a little more liberal, such as sliding an enclosure onto folded seats, podiums, and etc.
Your hard core street guys mostly say they aren't going to move up into a walled class. And now your Super Street guys want to control the rules on the Street Max class, and you have me in the middle just looking for something that I can sell to the consumers in my area as a place where they can compete with their systems and hopefully do well.
If I had no love for this sport, then I wouldn't be going through this $hit trying to get the rules to a point where I believe that DB Drag can grow dramatically again. I wouldn't be sitting here with a wad of money ready to buy expensive equipment, and organize events. I wouldn't be spending my highly valuable time on line discussing these rules with people who childishly act like they hate me and/or my ideas because I have the fortitude to stand behind the things which I believe in. You don't know me or my love for the sport. This is a business decision for me that has many ramifications for me, my customers, and the people we hope to attract to the sport. I take this VERY seriously, and before you make comments about me and/or what I'm committed to then you need to sit back and learn a little instead of being quick to make childish statements.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Dilbeck: Why is it that the majority of the people contributing to this thread other then me either are or have been Super Street Competitors? I just looked through the statistics of everyone that I could and read through the statements of those involved again, and it doesn't seem to me like there are really any street competitors or new people other then one or two of you so far that have been involved in this now two page long thread.
To me it makes it sound even more likely that Super Street is a class where seasoned competitors from DB Drag hope to jump into it and take advantage of the rules to dominate a class that was proposed as a street class with some modifications to make it a little more liberal, such as sliding an enclosure onto folded seats, podiums, and etc.
Your hard core street guys mostly say they aren't going to move up into a walled class. And now your Super Street guys want to control the rules on the Street Max class, and you have me in the middle just looking for something that I can sell to the consumers in my area as a place where they can compete with their systems and hopefully do well.
If I had no love for this sport, then I wouldn't be going through this $hit trying to get the rules to a point where I believe that DB Drag can grow dramatically again. I wouldn't be sitting here with a wad of money ready to buy expensive equipment, and organize events. I wouldn't be spending my highly valuable time on line discussing these rules with people who childishly act like they hate me and/or my ideas because I have the fortitude to stand behind the things which I believe in. You don't know me or my love for the sport. This is a business decision for me that has many ramifications for me, my customers, and the people we hope to attract to the sport. I take this VERY seriously, and before you make comments about me and/or what I'm committed to then you need to sit back and learn a little instead of being quick to make childish statements.
You might also notice that I am part of a team. I have several teammates who don't have internet, let alone know about termpro. We have discussed this, and I am simply conveying their opinion to the forum, since they don't have access to express it.
I don't think it is fair to ban a certain vehicle from a class based on it has the POTENTIAL to be louder than another. Let me ask you this, what other kind of show are you going to have where a guy with a wall in a truck doesn't compete with a wall in a van on a national level? I know the answer, there isn't one!
As far as being childish, you are the one being childish. Effectively you are saying, "Make the rules how i want them, or I'm taking my ball and going home."
-------------------- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - unknown
quote:NDMstang65 (9:54:55 PM): scottie gagged me once...
Posts: 8934 | From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
i'm street(street A), i'm a new member (tho i've been to a drag comp for the past 2 yrs) and i don't seee much of a problem with Cargo Vans being allowed.
there isn't really much modifications that can be done to a cargo van in this class that would put it above anything else.
cargo vans allowed or not, i have a van i'm working on that will be entered into as many drag comps as possible this summer(by my friend who's also working on it) no matter what class it ends up being in.... it may end up being superstreet, das cool, i might not even place if thats the case, but i don't care... Its all about learning and getting better.
This van won't have much in equipment either... we're talking 2 home theater 15's and around 1000watts with prolly 2 batteries in a wall. WE don't expect to win lots of shows, but rather prove to people that you don't need to spend $5000 on an install in order to get loud. Wanna guess how much our equipment is gonna cost us? $500 for all the electronics including wiring (but not batteries)
drag is about competing, but its also about having fun, You work at a shop right? why ruin the fun for others like me who just wanna show off thier skills just cause you hate the rules of 1 class?
Know how many comps there were in my area last year... 5!!!! and only 1 was a sanctioned event. I had every intention on Joining both IASCA & DRAG last year, but then found out that niether would even come close to having enuf comps for it to even be worth my time. And the shops that hold "local" type comps don't always hold as many as they say they will...
I WAS HAPPY, that i got to go to 4 shows...I wish more would have been sanctioned and actually followed some good rules, but hey... gotta play by the rules listed. This year i finally decided to join Drag not because i think i'll make it to finals, crap, i'd be surprised if there's more than 3 sanctioned comps here this year. But because i thought $30 which only part of which goes back to drag was worth my while for a membership. I may not make it to more shows than last year, but at least i'll be supporting a sport that i love, and others love too. Hopefully one day there will be enuf people supporting drag that there might be more than 1comp a year in my area. maybe even more than 1 shop that holds sanctioned comps.
-------------------- - I don't have a problem with people, its dumb people. So 90% of those who breathe i have trouble with. - If beauty is only skin deep, then ugly goes all the way to the bone Posts: 300 | From: Spokane, WA | Registered: May 2003
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posted
"I'm taking my ball and going home." [/QB][/QUOTE]
Yup.....that's what I'm doing. I'll leave this be.......
Just for the record if you are sooooo concerned with the newbies then why are you debating rules for a class that is supposed to be for veterans of street......I could be wrong but I think newbies should start out in street....NOT Street Max.
I hope you guys can still play without MY ball...LMFAO
-------------------- T3 Audio H.O. Alternators Team Soundstream 06 NW Champion
Posts: 2463 | From: A gravel pit in Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I VOTE NO CARGO VANS PEOPLE WANT TO BITCH ABOUT CRX'S IN STREET CLASSES AND NOW YOU WANT TO ALLOW CARGO VANS IN STREET. WHAT THE HELL, PULL UP YOUR SKIRTS AND LETS BE REAL HERE
Posts: 43 | From: orange city | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
the way i read this whole post......and i have many times.....is asking about cargo vans......in street max there is no limit to what you do behind the b pillar(besides cutting of the floor. so with that established, can someone tell me what exactley the difference between an asto(pick a trim package) and a cargo astro is? keep this in mind....i want to know about the metering area.....you know the one where there can be no mods....oh that is in front of the b-pillar......oh up there the 2 vans would be identical......sooo why all the whinning about cargo's?........i just dont get it
al, you can come down here and we can play some ball:).......
-------------------- Brett Children of the Corn Team Mayhem Posts: 766 | From: iowa | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by LOUDERCIVIC: I VOTE NO CARGO VANS PEOPLE WANT TO BITCH ABOUT CRX'S IN STREET CLASSES AND NOW YOU WANT TO ALLOW CARGO VANS IN STREET. WHAT THE HELL, PULL UP YOUR SKIRTS AND LETS BE REAL HERE
I vote yes to cargo vans! whats the difference between passenger vans and cargo vans in front of the "B" pillar with the seats in?eh?AND passenger caravans are LOUDER than cargo vans in ss1-2nw!Cargo vans have no advantage in a wall class buckeroo.
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2009 US.Top Cert.St C 158.7 2008 US.Top Cert.St C 158.4 2008 25-48NW NSPL World Champion 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag St A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US.record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4883 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
The class should be renamed to Super Street Min. Lets face it, this class is for SS competitors who dont have the money to buy batterys and amps, which is fine, but if its intent was to have a place for vetern street competitors to play, then it definatly failed.
Mark
-------------------- 4TH PLACE 2002 WORLD FINALS S 3-4 TEAM KRAZY 8'S EAST COAST 147.5dB 1973 VW BUG 2001 JEEP CHEROKEE Posts: 502 | From: Florida | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by LOUDERCIVIC: I VOTE NO CARGO VANS PEOPLE WANT TO BITCH ABOUT CRX'S IN STREET CLASSES AND NOW YOU WANT TO ALLOW CARGO VANS IN STREET. WHAT THE HELL, PULL UP YOUR SKIRTS AND LETS BE REAL HERE
Talk about lifting your skirt buddy......you're the one squeeling........you scarrred??? You are a funny guy. I am gonna take my shiny ball and come play in YOUR court....LOL I was joking about taking my ball and going home.......I won't run Street Max.....SS all the way.
I have been told the same thing about cargos.....the pass. ones are louder.. that's why I think this is funny and joined the conversation.
-------------------- T3 Audio H.O. Alternators Team Soundstream 06 NW Champion
Posts: 2463 | From: A gravel pit in Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by chemid51: The class should be renamed to Super Street Min. Lets face it, this class is for SS competitors who dont have the money to buy batterys and amps, which is fine, but if its intent was to have a place for vetern street competitors to play, then it definatly failed.
Mark
I agree.....that's why it should be N.W.....but then the cut through crew is upset......if cut throughs aren't allowed it's a van class....if they are they dominate.....I say van vs CRX in a NW No cut through class.
I think Shedluv needs to come up with a solution. Or someone anyone......is there a fair way to have this class ran??????
-------------------- T3 Audio H.O. Alternators Team Soundstream 06 NW Champion
Posts: 2463 | From: A gravel pit in Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Why does a van have an advantage over the following vehicles?
SUV Mid-Size Car (4 passenger) Extended Cab Pickup
In the 1-2 class you can only have 2 woofers and 2 amps. In the 3-4 class, you can have 4 woofers and 4 amps. I would think that it would be relatively easy to fit this gear into just about any vehicle. Since you have a wall, everything behind the B pillar can be used for the enclosure and other equipment.
Please stop the personal bickering.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
quote:Originally posted by RFLWagon: Anyone that threatens to not hold shows unless rules go their way isn't a REAL supporter of DB DRAG. A real supporter would state thier opinion and leave it at that. In closing.......You got no LOVE for this sport man........DON'T hold the shows.
Thank-You!
quote:Originally posted by *1LOWSUV*:
quote:Originally posted by Chris Dilbeck: I can tell you with 100% certainty that if this class allows for either of those the 6 shows we plan on doing in Georgia this year won't be DB Drag events.
quote:Originally posted by THE-SCRAPER: CARGO VANS IN STREET MAX? YES? ,NO?
It is still a street class, so I do not believe that cargo vans should be allowed in this class. Any cargo van can easily offer double if not tripple the enclosure volume of a full size truck or mini-truck if not more. Cars would have no chance.
Oh you're so wrong Mr Dilbeck have you been to finals?It was a little car with only dvc's that won SS1-2,2nd was trensetter's small pick-up,there were other small cars with high scores in SS as well.Do your home work.
-------------------- In Loving Memory, David Alfaro
2009 US.Top Cert.St C 158.7 2008 US.Top Cert.St C 158.4 2008 25-48NW NSPL World Champion 2007 U.S.Top Cert. Street A,B,C 2005 Db Drag St A World Champion 2004 Db Drag US.record 642 points 2003 Db Drag Points World Champion http://www.maxxsonics.com/
Back in 02 my girlfriend said I had to make a choice between her and DB Drag....I told that b-tch I've made harder decisions at the Coke machine. Posts: 4883 | From: Suitland,MD USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
O.k I have a question, In the matrix it says SM 1-2 and 3-4, and in the rules it says SM-A and SM-B. Can somone clear this up for me I will have 2 18's with 2 amps were will I be also am I alowed 1 or 2 exrta batteries.
quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: ... Since you have a wall, everything behind the B pillar can be used for the enclosure and other equipment.
Please stop the personal bickering.
I'll assume that this means the walls in street max are a done deal, and is non-negotiable.
-------------------- www.IMAGEdynamicsUSA.com "I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal." - Ron Burgundy Posts: 495 | From: The "O.C." | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by chemid51: The class should be renamed to Super Street Min. Lets face it, this class is for SS competitors who dont have the money to buy batterys and amps, which is fine, but if its intent was to have a place for vetern street competitors to play, then it definatly failed.
Mark
I don't really care about the renaming it part, but it looks like that is about the way that it is going to turn out.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: Why does a van have an advantage over the following vehicles?
SUV Mid-Size Car (4 passenger) Extended Cab Pickup
In the 1-2 class you can only have 2 woofers and 2 amps. In the 3-4 class, you can have 4 woofers and 4 amps. I would think that it would be relatively easy to fit this gear into just about any vehicle. Since you have a wall, everything behind the B pillar can be used for the enclosure and other equipment.
Please stop the personal bickering.
Let's take a moment and not look at this from what wins at finals the most often and look at the practical application of this class out on the small show 1x events. For a retailer trying to attract people into this class who have not competed before, vehicles which are walled off are going to be predominantly mini-trucks. Maybe a few cars, but not that many. For vehicles running around ground pounding that is going to take up the VAST majority of those which are walled off.
In all reality you can have a car and/or mini truck walled off and be relatively competitive with each other because both of them are going to be confined for usable space. When your trying to take a mini-truck, squeeze in 2-4 amps, an extra battery, a cap, and a pair of 15-18" subs in even a modestly large enclosure and space can get extremely tight, to the point where sacrifices are made. Take a really small car walled off and you at least normally have the trunk or you have front and rear access in a hatchback which can at least make it a little more usable when your space limited.
Now, out in the real world 99% of the people who own SUV's don't want to wall one off. Hell, half the people that a retailer wants to attract has parents that won't let them wall one off. So in the real world at the retailer level that isn't a big threat, but it is somewhat of a possiblity.
Again, on a retailer level the number of people that come to you with a mini-van to wall one off simply is non-existent. However, you do run into a situation which is very unlike Super street. These are definitely power limited classes. In place of power the only way to go is to build larger high gain enclosures and use larger and more efficient subs. In a van of any kind if you have enough sense to use the right equipment and build high gain efficient enclosures there will be a definite advantage over a small vehicle which has maybe 1/3rd the total interior volume available.
I know that larger does not always mean louder, but often times when efficiency is a key factor with low power it can be an EXTREME edge.
I have competitors with mini-trucks that have said just as plainly to me that they aren't going to compete in a class where they will go head to head with mini-vans where they feel that they are at a disadvantage. Out in the real world, perception is more important then finals results when you are trying to attract new people to the sport. This is one of those situations where perception is very important if growing the sport is truly your concern. That is just my 2 cents.
Posts: 279 | From: GA | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Ok, after reading all the posts i greatly retract my cargo van statements A vehicle is a vehicle and i think that the truck cut through thing is just as stupid to argue about now to.
I don't even know why i complained. i am using a 2 door hatchback in max And that is one of the most controversal vehicles. I must have been in a bad mood or somethin when i posted before. So to all people using vans I APPOLGIZE and good luck this year
-------------------- TEAM XTREME DISTURBANCE PRESIDENT TEAM GATES DBS "finaly after 4 years a 1st place at sbn lighnting must have struck" Posts: 21 | From: deltona, FL | Registered: Jan 2004
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