quote:Originally posted by Ghost man: There are only a few things that need to be done to make street class better overall...
1. alow a 15 like wayne stated 2. limmit the note in street to 55hz and lower 3. make a list of amps that are not alowed in 1-2 and amps you can only have one of in 3-4
I have posted #3 many times over the past two years and someone finaly got the hint......unfortunatly it was not DB Drag, yet.....
i have to agree with every statement you made in this thread.
and thanks for posting it all,i didnt cause im to lazy
Disclaimer: Thoughts and ideas expressed are soley of the opinion of the poster and do not reflect upon actual results. Posts: 464 | From: SFV,CALI | Registered: May 2002
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posted
extra batts and alternators in street?? why??
wouldnt that defeat the whole purpose of the street class??
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2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified 2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified 2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified 2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified 2008 Street B - 156.6 Certified
TEAM FEAR OF BASS Posts: 3611 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Team P.A.: Retailers hold shows to try to sell product, like extra batteries and such. Most of which is sold to Street Class competitors. With so few Street Classes and restrictions in Street, there is not much to sell. If there is no benefit from holding a show, retailers will stop hosting shows.
Guys whether you like it or not, this is a very valid point. There are a lot of people running around out there that can't compete in street classes without dismantling part of the system that they have already purchased because it has an additional battery, a 3 farad capacitor, or something of that nature.
In other words some kid may come in off the street and have a system installed. Maybe mommy and daddy's budget covered it, or maybe they saved the money. Doesn't really matter. The point is when they decide to compete they can't compete in the street class. It isn't that uncommon to see someone running around with an extra battery and 3 caps in bus bars with a nice installation just to condition the power supply that is only running a single class D amplifier like a Directed 1100D or a Memphis 1500D.
We have a lot of competitors in our area that won't compete in DB Drag events because of these limitations that force them into the Super Street class with guys that run 8 amplifiers on a quad coil subwoofer. However, they do every IDBL, Whitlee, and you name it event that comes up where they aren't thrown into such an insane bracket.
These classes leave too much of a jump right now. The disparity between Street and Super Street is huge. Going from no electrical upgrades whatsoever other then 1 or 2 farads of capacitance, no extra battery, no alternator upgrades, and 1 or two amplifiers for the subwoofer(s) to the SS class where you can run 2 alternators, no limits on the size or number of batteries, no limits on the size or number of capacitors, and effectively no limit on the size or number of amplifiers per subwoofer. Is a huge jump.
There are people out there that have and want to compete with what boils down to that of a bad-ass ground pounder system where some modifications are allowed but not to the extent of the super street class.
I can't believe that there aren't more people here that recognize the insane distance between those two classes. I know that everyone wants to keep the number of classes down. But we either need to expand the street criteria or create a new class that is somewhere in the middle of these two. Personally I like the Street and SuperStreet the way that they are. Another class in between those would be the natural evolution in my opinion.
-------------------- Chris Dilbeck Jack of all trades, master of none. Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
u want to be in street? take that extra batt out?? so much easier eh?
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2006 Street A - 152.7 Certified 2007 Street C - 154.8 Certified 2007 Street A - 154.4 Certified 2008 Street C - 156.3 Certified 2008 Street B - 156.6 Certified
TEAM FEAR OF BASS Posts: 3611 | From: Toronto, On, Canada | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Tinted: extra batts and alternators in street?? why??
wouldnt that defeat the whole purpose of the street class??
Yes it would....mainly since it would alow those giant non street type amps to dominate even more......
entirely true......
quote:Originally posted by Who'sYourDaddy: 4. Permit the use of an additional battery in the Street 1-2 Class. Yes to 1 extra battery and capacitors, but no to alternator upgrades.
most stock alts struggle enough with one battery. Why tax it even more with the duties of charging another batt? This would lead to the allowance of aftermarket alts and eventually street class would become non-street......
posted
Whosyourdaddy: Well said. But I don't believe an extra class is really doable. Even if it was, I can't see Wayne allowing it...
What you said is correct though, the distance between S and SS is massive. But the problem with allowing more batts or bigger alts is that the guys who can afford the bigger amps will just streak away from the REAL street competitors by more. We'll be seeing 160+ in Street vehicles! that is nuts! no way a S vehicle should have that much, it's not very "street" now is it?
I think i'm going to stay out of this till the new rules are set out... Street class here is fine anyways, we dont have the problem of the bigger amps as basically, they cost too much to import!
-------------------- TeamCAA - Car Audio Australia
1 x Hertz HS300 12" 1 x Blaupunk Burning Desire
1 x 147.5dB
150's is the aim, S1-2 is the game... Posts: 159 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Bodyjar: Whosyourdaddy: Well said. But I don't believe an extra class is really doable. Even if it was, I can't see Wayne allowing it...
What you said is correct though, the distance between S and SS is massive. But the problem with allowing more batts or bigger alts is that the guys who can afford the bigger amps will just streak away from the REAL street competitors by more. We'll be seeing 160+ in Street vehicles! that is nuts! no way a S vehicle should have that much, it's not very "street" now is it?
I think i'm going to stay out of this till the new rules are set out... Street class here is fine anyways, we dont have the problem of the bigger amps as basically, they cost too much to import!
as if 156 is a street vehicle too, and also how many street vehicles do u see with 4Kw's? and boxes tuned to 50hz? people are just getting greedy now..
also when will the rules be available.. not to be rude but some of us are planning your system's for next year, and don't know what to do because of the change of rules.
-------------------- Shattered and Broken. Now Recovering. Posts: 1226 | From: Mississauga, ON, Canada | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Bodyjar: What you said is correct though, the distance between S and SS is massive. But the problem with allowing more batts or bigger alts is that the guys who can afford the bigger amps will just streak away from the REAL street competitors by more. We'll be seeing 160+ in Street vehicles! that is nuts! no way a S vehicle should have that much, it's not very "street" now is it?
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who sees this....
quote:Originally posted by Bodyjar: What you said is correct though, the distance between S and SS is massive. But the problem with allowing more batts or bigger alts is that the guys who can afford the bigger amps will just streak away from the REAL street competitors by more. We'll be seeing 160+ in Street vehicles! that is nuts! no way a S vehicle should have that much, it's not very "street" now is it?
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who sees this....
You guys are making it about budget issues again. The fact is, if your budget is big enough sooner or later you'll find the right combination of people and product to get you into the winners circle in a given class. It doesn't matter what the limitations on that class are. If you think that your number one then you'd better get prepared to take some nasty medicine. Sooner or later you will be knocked off of your pedestal.
The issues I am addressing are much larger then the budget everyone keeps crying about. The disparity between the classes is a much larger issue in my opinion. There is just no middle ground.
Your worries about budget on amplifiers in my opinion about as legitimate as griping about a guy having the time, the ability or the money to build 15 or 20 different enclosures in order to get it dialed in to achieve the highest SPL. There is always someone else who can spend more time or more money. This sport is about knowledge and the application of that knowledge. If you are beaten it's not because someone else had a higher budget. It's because they made their choices wisely. You don't know what they may have sacrificed in order to come up with the equipment that they have.
You know as well as I do that these mysterious 4K amps everyone keeps talking about won't do anyone any good if they don't have the knowledge of how to use them and get the most out of them. The score will be no better then the install.
If you guys want to ban an amplfier, or make a list of banned amplifiers then do it. Address the problem where it stands just like Wayne did with the Quad Coil issue. If you have an issue then address the real issue instead of hiding behind others.
-------------------- Chris Dilbeck Jack of all trades, master of none. Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Bodyjar: What you said is correct though, the distance between S and SS is massive. But the problem with allowing more batts or bigger alts is that the guys who can afford the bigger amps will just streak away from the REAL street competitors by more. We'll be seeing 160+ in Street vehicles! that is nuts! no way a S vehicle should have that much, it's not very "street" now is it?
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who sees this....
You guys are making it about budget issues again. The fact is, if your budget is big enough sooner or later you'll find the right combination of people and product to get you into the winners circle in a given class. It doesn't matter what the limitations on that class are. If you think that your number one then you'd better get prepared to take some nasty medicine. Sooner or later you will be knocked off of your pedestal.
The issues I am addressing are much larger then the budget everyone keeps crying about. The disparity between the classes is a much larger issue in my opinion. There is just no middle ground.
Your worries about budget on amplifiers in my opinion about as legitimate as griping about a guy having the time, the ability or the money to build 15 or 20 different enclosures in order to get it dialed in to achieve the highest SPL. There is always someone else who can spend more time or more money. This sport is about knowledge and the application of that knowledge. If you are beaten it's not because someone else had a higher budget. It's because they made their choices wisely. You don't know what they may have sacrificed in order to come up with the equipment that they have.
You know as well as I do that these mysterious 4K amps everyone keeps talking about won't do anyone any good if they don't have the knowledge of how to use them and get the most out of them. The score will be no better then the install.
If you guys want to ban an amplfier, or make a list of banned amplifiers then do it. Address the problem where it stands just like Wayne did with the Quad Coil issue. If you have an issue then address the real issue instead of hiding behind others.
The budget aspect is only the tip of the iceberg. Street class was intended to be the entry level class for those looking to compete. It was the class inteded for the daily driving average joe who doesn't work for an audio shop for a living. It was meant to be the class that is easy (and cheap) to get into in order to draw new people into the sport.
I see what you are saying, but you are not looking a the big picture. The more you make stret class a non-street class, the less new people are drawn into the sport, the less audio manufacturers benfit, the less the shops benefit, the less the other competitors benifit.
You want to run more batts and alts? Move up to SS. It was set up that way in the first place for a reason.....
posted
Maybe Mini-street should be expanded? that can be the new Street, and then Street be expanded to allow for an upgraded alt or battery? But maybe i'm getting carried away...
-------------------- TeamCAA - Car Audio Australia
1 x Hertz HS300 12" 1 x Blaupunk Burning Desire
1 x 147.5dB
150's is the aim, S1-2 is the game... Posts: 159 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Bodyjar: Maybe Mini-street should be expanded? that can be the new Street, and then Street be expanded to allow for an upgraded alt or battery? But maybe i'm getting carried away...
ministreet does not account for points at all and there are no solid rules for that either. Many events don't have ministreet either.....
posted
What you guys don't see though is that the way you are currently set up invites guys like me into your street class. I have the budget to do pretty much whatever I want. (not trying to brag, just fortunate) Many people other then myself look at the Street class, then look at super street and sit back thinking "I don't really like either one of those."
So the question becomes which one do I want to compete in. Well I don't want to run two alternators or 570 batteries because those are not really streetable installs. I do want to be able to play around with my vehicles or take it up to the local shop and drop it off so that my friend can shake up some of their customers.
Going in street I can't run two altnerators and I can't beef up the one that is already there. I can't run multiple batteries or multiple amplifiers so my options are limited. But at the same time the one thing that has happened is that I have saved a whole lot of money to go towards the products that I will be using. Since the options are limited we can drop some coin on the products we think will work best in our application.
I'm not the only one out there that has to make this same decision, there are lots of them. I'd like to compete in a class where a few reasonable modifications are allowable but I'm not going to go to the extreme of Super street modifications. So, I and others like me will be showing up in the lanes with street competitors more and more. The same thing has happened to pretty much every sanctioning body for SQ and SPL that has been out there in the past. Deep pockets have always been around the competition scene. Where ever they want to compete is where they will be. If you don't have a class that suits them, then they will go into the one that is closest to what they want.
That's why I originally stated that I'd prefer to see a new class for limited modifications first. Since that isn't possible the second option was to expand the one that is there. That's not going to happen so there will just be a couple more high dollar installs in Street next year. We may flop, but we may not. Either way I'll guarantee you that you'll see more and more people taking advantage of these monster amplifiers in street class as time goes by if you don't either ban them or put some kind of limiting verbiage in the guidelines.
As it stands with the huge disparity between the street class and Super street you invite big budget competitors into your class that don't want to go to those extremes.
-------------------- Chris Dilbeck Jack of all trades, master of none. Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
allowing people to remain in street class after world finals is insane, your allowing all the top dogs to return and scare away all the "newbies" to come and try to play the game,.. in other words you wouldnt want to go jump head first and play pro sports unless you had a junior experence right? it just doesnt make any sense to me why someone would be aloud to stay after they showed there ability to win in the "world finals dbDRA" doesnt leave room or reason to for the little people to attemp to try the sport and thats what its all about,... new people coming out to the shows!
Posts: 136 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by akadj: allowing people to remain in street class after world finals is insane, your allowing all the top dogs to return and scare away all the "newbies" to come and try to play the game,.. in other words you wouldnt want to go jump head first and play pro sports unless you had a junior experence right? it just doesnt make any sense to me why someone would be aloud to stay after they showed there ability to win in the "world finals dbDRA" doesnt leave room or reason to for the little people to attemp to try the sport and thats what its all about,... new people coming out to the shows!
Exactly my point I have been trying to make, but the answer that I always get is, that instead of leaving the rules as they are, they are going to add "Mini street" and make all kinds of new rule............why fix something that isn't broken?? Or make MORE things to "police" (as it has been stated) I just don't understand the logic, but whatever........I mean if they are all about making a new class, I don't see what was so wrong with the "Pro-Street" class idea........Oh yes I do........that wasn't an idea that came from a world finalist......and those are the ones that we all want to make happy.
I think that I have said too much....................I must go now................the SPL Ninja's are upon me Need more power? UP YOURS!! with Excessive Amperage! Posts: 6116 | From: Northern California | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Street should be open to people that work in shops also. i own a small company and we can't even drop the bucks it takes for ss! it's getting out of hand. but you can still win with the right R/D which many seem to pass over. but what does someone that works in a shop have over a newcomer? price of product? you can go on ebay and other sites and buy product for less than dealer cost! who installed the newcomers products? a shop? or will the newcomer goto a shop if they can't win, then with helped from a shop they become winners now they need to goto super street? with the rules in place in street now it should be a open class maybe with a power or money cap? as for using a 15" in street i would love to take out someone using two 12" if i could compete in street.
posted
Hello. I have gone to one competition.,that is the sum total. These are the things that IMHO need to be improved: The competitors are asked to show up at nine am.,to register.,why? Since lane formation is only permited after two PM? Why not register and get in line at two pm ? We were placed in the sun.,Why no shade.,or even some free water for us? I had a two cubic foot box in a two door sedan 1999 chevrolet cavalier.,inside the box were two pyramid ten inch subwoofers.,the amplifier was a jensen two channel amp.,but.,since my box was in the back seat.,instead of in the trunk .,they placed me in the super street category.,where the rest of the competitors made fun of us and called us "stupid" for going to a show with what we had. Please.,please.,please.,please.,change or consider this rule.,what does it hurt if we have our box on top of the rear seat? instead of in the trunk? We went with the same equipment to an IDBL event and they told us that we were stock.,we still did not win.,but at least no one called us "stupid" And we have since sold that equipment for a JBL 1200.1 power valve and one 15 inch subwoofer.,we plan to go to more events.,but if haveing such modest equipment on the rear seat places us in super street.,then I guess we will just have to forget DB Drag.,I mean.,yeah.,one little amp and battery versus guys with like huge amps and a whole bunch of batterys? ( and a three cubic foot box for the subwoofer on the rear seat) The reason is my mom has the trunk full of her stuff.,so the only place left is the back seat for the box(as long as I remove it from the car when the event is over and place it back in the garage)(I sold the two cubic foot box and the pyramid woofers). Thank you.,Sir. Please consider the viewpoint of the guy who has to ask Mom for the car to go to an event.,please?
-------------------- You are what you read. Un happy with your life? Change what you read. Change what you are. Posts: 206 | From: Nobodys damn business but mine | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
reely the hole problem is dbdrag isnt for car audio sistems so it shouldnt limit to much-it should alow a 2nt battery becuse it just isnt reely about car audio-its about special type of sistems that people dont play music on-so it shouldnt worry about nubys-they havent learnt about how to bild loud sistems and loud sistems is what dbdrag is all about-not car audio
-------------------- I needed a sub Fast as my car
found it - DD 3512/9512 bass that hits like jet lee- quick, clean, and accurate - sound as clear as it gets - Posts: 107 | From: The Start | Registered: Dec 2002
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