The dBDRA defines a "PRO" competitor as follows...

A pro is someone who meets one or more of the following criteria:

• Anyone who is employed in the auto sound industry.
  
• Anyone who is sponsored by someone in the auto sound industry.
  
• Anyone who purchases auto sound equipment at below fair-market prices.
  
• Anyone who has competed as a pro in the past.
  
• Anyone who obtains their equipment directly from the manufacturer.
  
• Anyone who advertises a specific brand of product or service on their vehicle. (With the exception of reasonably sized equipment decals.)
  
• Anyone who receives any type of compensation related to auto sound or auto sound competition. (Including money, vouchers, labor, equipment, etc.)
  

• Anyone who advertises a specific brand of product or service on their vehicle. (With the exception of reasonably sized equipment decals.)
  

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Most of these items were defined in the 1998 rule book. Although we will still be creating a new Novice division for 2002, the Street Division is still intended for amateur competitors.

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I agree.

Do to the fact a lot of companies are over the internet nowadays......

I am just curious it is of no concern to me but what if someone buys stuff off of EBAY???

How do we seperate the pros though?? Like how do we know for sure people arent gettign stuff for cheaper and then getting a fake reciept that says they paid full pop???

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Originally posted by Wayne Harris:
...Anyone who receives any type of compensation related to auto sound or auto sound competition. (Including money, vouchers, labor, equipment, etc.)...

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How about free measurements? We all know that it is impossible to have good results without measurements, and how many amaters have measuring gear or can afford to pay full price?

I think that it is good idea to separate pros from amaters, but it is also very hard to monitor and check that. This can cause many conflicts!

• If you have ever worked for a retailer before are you considered a pro (regardless of when and how long you worked)?
  
• Does this include chain stores, such as Best Buy and Circuit City?
  
• Can someone who has worked for a store before, but no longer does, purchase equipment at a fair-market price (and prove that they did) and then compete in the street class.
  

Also, about the equipment directly from the manufacturer or at fair market prices, that means that anyone who got a D2 from Earthquake from their competitor program, or got ID subs straight from Image, or even the Zapco amps direct is now not allowed to compete in the street class? Also to my understanding, that would mean that you would have to purchase DD, Treo, and Shocker subs from a "retailer" or you couldn't run them in the street class.

I think there was a misunderstanding about the continuation of the "old street" class when the discussion changed from Pro Street to Old Street and a Novice class. If you use the above guidelines, I feel that there will be very few people in the Street class. Most competitors who are making a run for Finals have broken or will break one of those criteria stated above.

I will admit that by the above definition I am a pro. I worked for a shop for less than a year, and that shop doesn't even carry car audio anymore. We didn't have a meter to read over 135 dB. Yes, I purchased the 2 subs and 1 amp that are in my truck through an employee discount, but it would have been stupid for me not to use it when I could. Its not like I couldn't have purchased them myself as everything was under $2000 retail.

I thought the Street was for both the newer and the seasoned competitor to compete in a class that has a severe amount of limitations on it, or who doesn't have the ability to have a dedicated competition vehicle and must compete with their daily driver. I think if this definition would have been given when the discussion for the "Pro" Street class was done, I belive there would be several who would have changed their opinion. From what I can tell, most of the people "pushing" for the continuation of the Street class at finals are Pro's by the above definitions and would not be allowed to compete.

I don't that this works for the same way that it didn't work back in 1999. A Pro can build a complete system for anyone and even though they're an Amateur, they have a "Pro" system. If I can't compete, I plan on building several systems for people who can. And I'm sure that anyone with a sizeable bankroll could walk into one of the top line shops (Sweet Sounds, Pure Sound, Classic Stereo in Ft. Wayne, Excel Audio, etc.) and walk out with a World Finals level system.

Also, could I build a Team vehicle and just let someone else push the button. For example, have a Team Shedluv, and use my truck and my equipment and let my g/f burp it? I mean she has never competed before or worked at a shop, so she's an amateur and can run in Street. So if you have a team of competitors, can NONE of them be a Pro?

I just think this will create a lot more loopholes that will be exploited and put a lot of people who should be in this class out of it. Now the street discussion will not be about cheater amps or illegal boxes, but about who built the system. Does it really matter if its loud? Why should one individual with the exact same system as someone else be restricted from competing because of who they are or what they know? Sounds a little like discrimination to me.

There's no way I'm gonna molest a perfectly decent car to make a competitive SS 1-2 or SS 1-2 NW car, with no disparagement towards anyone who runs those classes.

The thing that confuses me is some stores do sell these products.

Beyond Audio has a dealer.

Shocker has had dealers when it was atomic thunder I dont know where they have expanded to now.

Digital Designs has been and still is sold in stores.

Re well I have no clue if they have dealers yet.

The thing is how do you seperate all these???

I mean up here in Canada I know of noone who sells Image Dynamics nor have I ever had a rep offer it to our store.

So does this make it commercially available???

Treo is also not available up here yet either.

I am not trying to burn bridges at all but how do we define being available from a manufacturer???

If they cant get it here, customers are gonna order from the manufacturer plain and simple or over the internet.

Also for such brands aas Beyond Audio, Shocker, DD, and RE how do we know if it was or wasnt bought in the store???

Honestly it is not of any big concern to me for most of he guys using our product are going into Pro street anyways.....

But do we need to rpovide reciepts or what when we go to these local shows or do we expect everyone to be honest???

Also if you competed in street last year will you be allowed in it again if you were already invited to world finals?????

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Originally posted by alrile:
It is to my understanding that the new "Pro Street class" will allow "pro's" in it, correct? And this class will be offered at finals and for points? And the entry level class will not have points offered? and won't be at finals? Please let me know so I can give you my opinion on this matter.

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Alan, there is no "Pro Street" class. That name used in the discussions is just the Street class now (just like last year) and will go to finals (that is what this post is about). The class for the newbies will be a novice class, but will not be called Street.

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Although we will still be creating a new Novice division for 2002, the Street Division is still intended for amateur competitors.

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Originally posted by Wayne Harris:
I have received several emails asking for specific details regarding the definition of a Pro competitor. I believe that the Ama vs Pro distinction is pretty clear-cut. If you receive compensation (money, equipment, labor, etc.), you are a Pro.

The dBDRA defines a "PRO" competitor as follows...

A pro is someone who meets one or more of the following criteria:

• Anyone who is employed in the auto sound industry.
  
• Anyone who is sponsored by someone in the auto sound industry.
  
• Anyone who purchases auto sound equipment at below fair-market prices.
  
• Anyone who has competed as a pro in the past.
  
• Anyone who obtains their equipment directly from the manufacturer.
  
• Anyone who advertises a specific brand of product or service on their vehicle. (With the exception of reasonably sized equipment decals.)
  
• Anyone who receives any type of compensation related to auto sound or auto sound competition. (Including money, vouchers, labor, equipment, etc.)
  

Most of these items were defined in the 1998 rule book. Although we will still be creating a new Novice division for 2002, the Street Division is still intended for amateur competitors.

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-Anyone who has previously competed at World Finals.

Anything else, (in my opinion) would be impossible to regulate. How could we possibly know who has received discounts and who hasnt? How do we know that Joe Schmoe from Kentucky works at a shop? All these things would just induce more confusion.

We know who has been to finals and who has not (I'm sure this is all kept on record somewhere). There is no arguing or "pointing of fingers", just facts.

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Originally posted by JustboB:
The way it needs to be policed is: If you want points you are in one class, if you dont want points, you are in another class.

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Originally posted by fixxxer:
To keep this simple.. Here is my definition of a "pro".

-Anyone who has previously competed at World Finals.

Anything else, (in my opinion) would be impossible to regulate. How could we possibly know who has received discounts and who hasnt? How do we know that Joe Schmoe from Kentucky works at a shop? All these things would just induce more confusion.

We know who has been to finals and who has not (I'm sure this is all kept on record somewhere). There is no arguing or "pointing of fingers", just facts.

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: fixxxer ]

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