posted
I've been competing in audio for the last 5 years and i've been to one dbdrag show that was local. So I don't even bother.
On another related note, I still don't understand why audio assocations/clubs have such a problem with advertising. Maybe the respective owners need to go to some marketing classes at their local community college
-------------------- Posts: 701 | From: Fort Knox, Kentucky | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Team Maxxsonics - John:
quote:Originally posted by NDMstang65: Read Black00's post Jay.
It answers your question...in fact, all of them.
It was HUGE in 1999-2001...what happened?
You do not see manufacturers leaving NASCAR do you? They're biting at the heels to get a team...
It's funny that you mention Nascar. Isn't it true that 4 of the 6 car manufacturers are going bankrupt unless the goverment bails them out?
That's not to say that Nascar is the reason but I'll bet you will see fewer manufacturers supporting Nascar this time next year.
Ford/GM/etc cut their own throats due to poor decisions in the past that is kicking their ass now.
Not all of the sponsors that really are the owners/advertisers on the cars. Dupont, Valvoline, Cat, Dewalt, etc. etc.
Everybody knows what Ford/GM/Toyota is.
Think about it...it's 2 million dollars a year for a Bush car. That bush car gets at LEAST 2 hours of exposure on national television, other ads etc...how many views do you get?
Versus say putting an ad on one 30 second spot at the superbowl for 2-3 million dollars?
Makes sense to me...
-------------------- When a marketing guy puts the cookies on the table and tells the tale of how it is. It's real funny that everything all of a sudden changes...
-ex staff :shakes head and walks away:- Posts: 5317 | From: Radford, Va...Radford University! | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
why should a company like DD have to support db drag racing when most of the people using their product and winning put stickers on their cars and give them free advertising? Why pay for something that is free?
-------------------- Team 2x4 + Soundigital = loud
quote:Originally posted by .: why should a company like DD have to support db drag racing when most of the people using their product and winning put stickers on their cars and give them free advertising? Why pay for something that is free?
This is true of all the supporting manufacturers as well.
Would you agree with all manufacturers dropping support of dBDrag?
Posts: 2033 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Team Maxxsonics - John:
quote:Originally posted by NDMstang65: Read Black00's post Jay.
It answers your question...in fact, all of them.
It was HUGE in 1999-2001...what happened?
You do not see manufacturers leaving NASCAR do you? They're biting at the heels to get a team...
It's funny that you mention Nascar. Isn't it true that 4 of the 6 car manufacturers are going bankrupt unless the goverment bails them out?
That's not to say that Nascar is the reason but I'll bet you will see fewer manufacturers supporting Nascar this time next year.
Ford/GM/etc cut their own throats due to poor decisions in the past that is kicking their ass now.
Not all of the sponsors that really are the owners/advertisers on the cars. Dupont, Valvoline, Cat, Dewalt, etc. etc.
Everybody knows what Ford/GM/Toyota is.
Think about it...it's 2 million dollars a year for a Bush car. That bush car gets at LEAST 2 hours of exposure on national television, other ads etc...how many views do you get?
Versus say putting an ad on one 30 second spot at the superbowl for 2-3 million dollars?
Makes sense to me...
I was just making light of the topic. There are a lot of reasons for failure by the big 3 but no more then lacking sales right?
There are many reasons people buy foreign cars and most are the big 3's faults.
Posts: 2033 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Team Maxxsonics - John:
quote:Originally posted by .: why should a company like DD have to support db drag racing when most of the people using their product and winning put stickers on their cars and give them free advertising? Why pay for something that is free?
This is true of all the supporting manufacturers as well.
Would you agree with all manufacturers dropping support of dBDrag?
Don't get me wrong, its a great thing that companies like maxxsonics, stetsom and cactus sounds support db drag racing. Although, if I owned a company and was getting free advertising I probably would not also pay for it. If you want to see more companies support db drag racing maybe wayne should outlaw vehicles having advertisements for non supporting companies, or something like large banners/tents etc advertising the supporting companies at all 3x and world finals events.
posted
Supporting dBDrag (or any other organisation)is more then just joining dBDrag as a corporate sponsor.
1. It's about attending shows and bringing products to support competitors when they need help. 2. It's about sending free products to events for raffles and prizes which help offset the hosts costs and rewards competitors for attending and competing. 4. It's about attending World Finals with booths, support products, technical assistance for your supporting customers. 5. It's about giving back to the sport and competitors that help keep your lights on and payroll going. 6. It's about showing that you can put-out a little support when the competitors that support your products are working long hours mastering their vehicles and your products, spending thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars in product, build materials, gas hotels, trailers, hardships away from family and at the end of the day...may or may not get a $35.00 trophy. And when it's all done, they talk about how great the products are whether they win or loose.
My Opinion: Support for the sport is a corporate responsability. Support for the competitors is a moral responsability
Posts: 2033 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by tommyk90: You guys can speak for yourselves when you talk about "too many" shows.
The shortest drive I had all last year was 2 and a half hours and that was for a 1x. I averaged a minimum of 3 hours each way to do a show and ended up with only 79 points including my bonus points.
Perhaps there should be restriction on how many shows can be in a certain area.
To the other topic at hand, I don't blame the manufacturers for bailing out, competition isn't what it used to be and I don't think it will ever be the same.
Back in the early years car stereos were a hot commodity and everyone wanted to go bigger and better. Nowadays there's so much equipment out there and so many competing brands that there wasn't much left that was "new" or "edgy". Bassrace is the only format keeping db drag alive, IMO, and I think should be separated and started off as a spinoff. All too often I hear people say that they won't go to a db drag show because they'll get whooped, while they have no idea about bassrace or how it works.
As for manufacturers supporting db drag, as nick and others stated, the ROI is very low. Even for a company like digital designs (which I happen to use), do you REALLY think they generate that much sales from people using the equipment in db drag? Really?
Plus I'd hate to play devils advocate here, but if DD can keep sales up while not spening money on manufacturer memberships or supporting shows, why would they bother? That's just wasted money if you ask me. Sure it's a bit harsh and they are making money off of other's success, but this isn't anything new in the world of car audio and business in general.
Well it looks to me like DD stepped up as a member!! Congrats on T-3 on becoming a member keep the pressure on your manufactures and for god's sake Bob at American Bass common man!!
Later, Sean
Posts: 691 | From: GAINESVILLE,FL | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
XS Power Batteries will be supporting the competition organizations and their competitors as much as possible in 09. In this economy, timing when the marketing dollars are spent is critical. It is my hope that the XS Power team members can benefit from our efforts and contribute to the competition orgs by attending as many events as possible throughout the season.
-------------------- Scottie Johnson Sound Pressure Technologies
quote:Originally posted by Team Maxxsonics - John: Supporting dBDrag (or any other organisation)is more then just joining dBDrag as a corporate sponsor.
1. It's about attending shows and bringing products to support competitors when they need help. 2. It's about sending free products to events for raffles and prizes which help offset the hosts costs and rewards competitors for attending and competing. 4. It's about attending World Finals with booths, support products, technical assistance for your supporting customers. 5. It's about giving back to the sport and competitors that help keep your lights on and payroll going. 6. It's about showing that you can put-out a little support when the competitors that support your products are working long hours mastering their vehicles and your products, spending thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars in product, build materials, gas hotels, trailers, hardships away from family and at the end of the day...may or may not get a $35.00 trophy. And when it's all done, they talk about how great the products are whether they win or loose.
My Opinion: Support for the sport is a corporate responsability. Support for the competitors is a moral responsability
Ya...supporting dbdrag...Maxxsonics is there......bravo....what little traffic you get from non-competitors that happen to care enough to go to a show is yours to try to catch right now.
But getting more companies and former companies to support them is another issue all together. And it all comes down to consumer traffic at shows...if the numbers of potential customers, innocent bystanders, sheep, lemmings, stoners, former circuit city and best buy customers are not there.... then the vulturs will not circle. To do that....advertisement must be in place...a good month ahead of large shows, in your face advertising....not in crappy magazines.......not in news papers.....not in flyers.......ON TV. So the snot nosed 16-19 year old will actually see it. They have their head in the clowds...if you want it in front of their eyes you have to put it either on PS3 or on TV...... or on some porn......OR...drum roll please.........other TYPES of shows.....in force..... why do you think Kicker SOAKED the motocross circuit?????? everybody wanted to yell SELL OUT SELL OUT!!!!!! BUT kicker had a plan...and the plan worked...... why cater SO MUCH to the people that already buy from us?.......lets saturate the youth from other hobbies...so in their crappy truck that hauls their motorbikes....they'll have a L7 in it with a kicker 4way amp and some components..... Same principal...... DBDRAG at a show that has nothing to do with car audio.....not competing.......just a few cars demo'd up...doing the test wangs with video and guest participation or something...."here hit the burp button" "here sit in wang mobile at 1/4 volume with this head gear on" whatever....... "oh btw we are having a monster huge wang stick show on the 24th at wherever over there" TO GET THE TRAFFIC COMING>.......
How many of you have been to shows where there are NOTHING BUT COMPETITORS IN ATTENDANCE??????? Now what about 2x and 3x nothing but competitors with a sprinkle of pedestrians?
That is called...a bad sign. Yes some shows still do well... But the majorty i'm sure ESPECIALLY NOW in the near future....will need some assistance to get some flow going.
I dunno.......whatever.....listen, don't listen....the principals of business are obvious...what I'm saying is fact...not fiction. Nobody is saying a year from now DBDRAG will be gone. But, the growth of it depends on changing to the plan of attack rather than sticking with the plan of sit and wait for people to get sucked in via word of mouth and random curiosity.
-------------------- Dangerous and Unstable
All fo one...mo fo us...none fo you Posts: 289 | From: Memphis | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Team Maxxsonics - John: Supporting dBDrag (or any other organisation)is more then just joining dBDrag as a corporate sponsor.
1. It's about attending shows and bringing products to support competitors when they need help. 2. It's about sending free products to events for raffles and prizes which help offset the hosts costs and rewards competitors for attending and competing. 4. It's about attending World Finals with booths, support products, technical assistance for your supporting customers. 5. It's about giving back to the sport and competitors that help keep your lights on and payroll going. 6. It's about showing that you can put-out a little support when the competitors that support your products are working long hours mastering their vehicles and your products, spending thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars in product, build materials, gas hotels, trailers, hardships away from family and at the end of the day...may or may not get a $35.00 trophy. And when it's all done, they talk about how great the products are whether they win or loose.
My Opinion: Support for the sport is a corporate responsability. Support for the competitors is a moral responsability
Exactly its called respect. Posts: 470 | From: West | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Team Maxxsonics - John: Supporting dBDrag (or any other organisation)is more then just joining dBDrag as a corporate sponsor.
1. It's about attending shows and bringing products to support competitors when they need help. 2. It's about sending free products to events for raffles and prizes which help offset the hosts costs and rewards competitors for attending and competing. 4. It's about attending World Finals with booths, support products, technical assistance for your supporting customers. 5. It's about giving back to the sport and competitors that help keep your lights on and payroll going. 6. It's about showing that you can put-out a little support when the competitors that support your products are working long hours mastering their vehicles and your products, spending thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars in product, build materials, gas hotels, trailers, hardships away from family and at the end of the day...may or may not get a $35.00 trophy. And when it's all done, they talk about how great the products are whether they win or loose.
My Opinion: Support for the sport is a corporate responsability. Support for the competitors is a moral responsability
I agree, if manufactures do not support the sport there would be little to no place for the vehicles to compete at. Make the show an actual show. Plain and simple if a company is going to be using the sport to sell product they better make sure they support the actual show the way other companies do. Some might turn their nose at it but other companies paid into it and I am sure they didn't and don't pay into it so other companies can take advantage of all for free.
[ 02-20-2009, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: amish power ]
quote:Originally posted by scottiej: XS Power Batteries will be supporting the competition organizations and their competitors as much as possible in 09. In this economy, timing when the marketing dollars are spent is critical. It is my hope that the XS Power team members can benefit from our efforts and contribute to the competition orgs by attending as many events as possible throughout the season.
X a million on that....my point exactly....
--------------------
Team Powermasters Team Ascendant Audio Team Cactus Sound Posts: 3210 | From: Orlando | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
It's real easy to bash manufacturers for not doing enough, but don't forget the competitors who burned the bridges years ago. Those that took product and sold the product on ebay. Those that took product and switched in mid-season because something else came along. Those that took product and never used it at all. Those that took speakers blew them up at shows and then placed them out for crowds to see (not understanding why the speaker was blown, just assuming it was a defective product). Those that blasted manufacturers on internet forums after they had switched companies. Those competitors tied to a manufacturer who made an ass of themselves on a forum turning away potential customers because of their actions.
The reason you may have less supporting manufacturers also has a lot to do with the actions of the competitors over the years also.
Ask yourself this--for every dime off MSRP that a manufacturer has ever supported you with--can you directly trace back sales that make that money back for the manufacturer?
It's easy to keep asking more and more from a manufacturer, but at some point you have to ask--what can we do for the manufacturer. They are in a business to make money. They are not in the business to help people achieve personal goals.
posted
Andy you are correct about what you say but remember that those manufacturers gave product away for free to team members and only the top level players. That was a huge mistake and caused most of the problems you mention.
It's obvious to us that when you get something for free, it has less value. When you pay for what you have, you appreciate the value and have a vested interest in not only keeping but you are less likely to carelessly over abuse it.
In the free product catagory, some people will take advantage and the next company offers him free product and gas money and then the next company offers free product, gas money, hotel money... and on and on..
Of course they got burned! It's the only thing was most likely to happen.
Now, there are many, many competitors that had these deals and did not take advantage and it was worth the support. Unfortunately, it takes fewer people to ruin it for everyone then good people respecting it.
The old saying "one bad apple" is very much correct.
Posts: 2033 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Here's my thoughts on it. I'm now in the manufacturer side of things, and as we are a new company I am not new to sales, marketing and running a company.
So when I look into marketing, lets look into DB drag. What does the Org have to offer me? So far all I see is a banner flash on a website. Anything else? Am I missing something?No? Ok so they have a finals, I can purchase a booth to promote my products. So where is the advertising for the event? Also where is the foot traffic? Now all I have seen so far is the finals out here on the west coast, but I have also seen plenty pictures from the other locations and still, no foot traffic. I will say other orgs have had a better turnout for foot traffic. I was at a finals in 04 in KC, it was full of people all day. None of the people watched the event but instead looked at all the show cars and also hung out for the concert.
So what ROI do I exactly get out of this? Not exactly my idea of a good investment.
Lets also look at who my customer base is. So far I can say that every "customer" asked for a price... and (most)bought and every "competitor" asked for free stuff..... and never emailed back again after I said I can't.
So when I go to shows, I see the same non buying competitors at every show. Again, wheres the foot traffic. What is in it for me to do a raffle giveaway of product or even free shirts? Again where is the ROI?
Now what I have seen is, shows like DUB, NOPI, etc. be a great marketing tool. I can get a booth and talk with potential customers all day and make money doing it.
For too many years now, I have heard judges say that they are the marketing tool for shops. And so far all I see is the same group of competitors hold up in the dealers parking lot making a mess, scaring off the dealers customers, and not doing the one thing the shop paid DB drag to do, bring in foot traffic to their store.
Db drag wants me (manufacturer) to invest into db drag, then they need to show me bang for my buck. Give me traffic at shows and for my dealers and fill the finals venue with traffic. I will be more then happy to pay money for both of those.
Thanks,
Bill
-------------------- If the listening level is too loud, please inform the driver, so he can promptly pull over, and let you out.
Team Parasite. Posts: 296 | From: Rio Linda, CA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Here is one way to look at supporting and non-supporting manufacturers.
A supporting manufacturer: can be lookaed at on many differant levels from having a corporate dBDrag membership (which helps pay for this site we like to play in), supporting local shows with banners, give-aways, raffle product, trophy sponsorship or just to cheer on their team members. Some come to Finals with a booth to help off-set the costs associated with hosting it, some come becuase they have contributed to the "goodie bag" or trophy sponsorship and the list goes on and on at many levels of support.
These are all great at many levels and every little bit helps and by contributing in some positive manner affords you the right to come on to this forum and contribute to the tech questions, add a manufacturers perspective of certain topics and maybe even do a little product promotion when it's appropriate and warranted.
Non supporting members: contribute nothing to the dBDrag association, do not attend shows on a contribution level, meaning no trophy sponsorships, no raffle products, no prizes, no support products for their team members, no participation at Finals (including a simple gesture of a free goodie for the goodie bags or a t-shirt, beer can koozie....nothing).
However, they do come on to the forums, bitch about how the forum and dBDrag is run, shamelessly self promote their products, endlessly complain about not getting any return on investment and yet never made an investment in anyhting that has anything to do with our sport. Support is a two way street and this forum is a great way to get your competition level products in view of the people that buy them and promote them on this and many other forums. If there is no return on investment then maybe every non supporting manufacturer should remove the corporate logos from there signatures and not be permited to self promote their products on this site.
Now, there are many, many companies that are not directly involved in promoting or suporting dBdrag and that's fine and dandy because you don't see those companies on here exploiting the web site.
Just my humble opinion.
Posts: 2033 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, I believe it is inappropriate for individuals to use our bandwidth and our "soapbox" to say derogatory things about the very organization that makes this website possible.
I have been involved with the auto sound industry since 1984. During that time I have become friends with most of the "movers and shakers" in this industry. This year was my 24th consecutive Winter CES. In other words, I do know a thing or two about this business and the companies who play here. With that being said, I can tell you that many of the statements made in this thread are completely wrong. (Especially with regards to out-of-industry marketing programs.)
What I can tell you is this. The dBDRA is strong today and it will be strong tomorrow. While the autosound industry has contracted significantly over the past decade, we have held our own. And, we continue to garner mainstream media coverage... something no one else in this industry has ever done. From Mythbusters to the Wall Street Journal to Playboy and everything in between.
I am not going to defend what we do on our own website. If you don't like what we do, fine. But don't come on here and spoil it for everyone else who does appreciate what our organization has to offer.
Effective immediately, I want moderators to remove any thread that contains a logo or advertisement from ANY company that is not a sponsor of this website. It is simply not fair to those companies who are subsidizing this site to allow these parasites to continue promoting their products here.
-------------------- "Keep it Loud and Make me Proud!"
posted
That is one of the reasons i went with maxxsonics products in the first place cause john and mike where at shows showing support and even when i was not on the team all the members where always willing to help out even when they where busy. I can call maxxsonics and get a great response from customer service. I used to love rockford but it was to the point where they stopped coming to shows and didnt see many people with them anymore. That is why i enjoy running maxxsonics products is due to there great customer support. How many corporate people you know would sit down and have a dinner with the team members like maxxsonics does at shows. Keep up the good work mike and john.
-------------------- www.splmax.com Team Maxxsonics DB LINC DESIGNS Posts: 1356 | From: ohio | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Harris: I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, I believe it is inappropriate for individuals to use our bandwidth and our "soapbox" to say derogatory things about the very organization that makes this website possible.
I have been involved with the auto sound industry since 1984. During that time I have become friends with most of the "movers and shakers" in this industry. This year was my 24th consecutive Winter CES. In other words, I do know a thing or two about this business and the companies who play here. With that being said, I can tell you that many of the statements made in this thread are completely wrong. (Especially with regards to out-of-industry marketing programs.)
What I can tell you is this. The dBDRA is strong today and it will be strong tomorrow. While the autosound industry has contracted significantly over the past decade, we have held our own. And, we continue to garner mainstream media coverage... something no one else in this industry has ever done. From Mythbusters to the Wall Street Journal to Playboy and everything in between.
I am not going to defend what we do on our own website. If you don't like what we do, fine. But don't come on here and spoil it for everyone else who does appreciate what our organization has to offer.
Effective immediately, I want moderators to remove any thread that contains a logo or advertisement from ANY company that is not a sponsor of this website. It is simply not fair to those companies who are subsidizing this site to allow these parasites to continue promoting their products here.
AMEN KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! SEAN
Posts: 691 | From: GAINESVILLE,FL | Registered: Oct 2000
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-------------------- Team Maxxsonics . Kinetik Power Maxxsonics Team Captain 2005 WF SM 1-2 6th place 2006 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 3rd w/315 points : SPLMax Competitor of the Year. 2007 WF SM 1-2 4th Place : U.S. Points 9th w/215 points : Top U.S. SM 1-2 certified score. 2007 Usaci State Records : Mod 2001-4000 : Mod 4000-up : Port Wars Open : Street Beat 4. 2008 Sold the nissan and took a break to build a new minitruck. 2009 Coming back with Bass Race & Psychlone in the minitruck.
posted
so is Power Master and DcSounds part of it.B/c i pulled them off of my sig
-------------------- First 160+ on April 25/2009
2008 World finals ss 1/2 3rd with a 154.5 2007 World Finals ss 1/2 NW 3rd with a 150.0 Posts: 2087 | From: n w ohio | Registered: Dec 2006
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