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So does anyone think that my numbers are really possible then? Do you think that a saz1500d is even capable of making 1747 watts at 1.7 ohms? Myself I think that is a bit of an inflated number and maybe there is some misunderstanding in the power measurement at these shows.
If you guys are making around 1400 watts out of your 1500d's at almost 2 ohms of resistance then why the hell is my amp supposedly making almost 1800 watts at the similar resistances. Something isn't right here.
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just an interesting thought I do my biggest numbers with the most cone rise and the least amount of power!! I can get a ton of more power at a higher HZ but my number will not be as high? just a thought but I am sure that there is more to a setup than the amount of power you are getting??
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is fred using rms multimeters? if not that could be the problem. i've checked an older sundown 1500 and it was about the same as you guys are saying. othawa might remember the exact #, but it was around 1500 at 1.5 or so.
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Zach, Again, if you would come to some shows you would learn alot about me. When I am working on an SPL setup, I clamp mine at every show, every burp. Learned that from a Db Drag World Champion (Thanks Ryan) Here are her results from the Andrews show: Ms. Cookie Ama. 0-500 150.1 db @ 1387 clamped power .5 ohm rise to 1.8. 1 Sundown 1500, 2 Sundown 12" Nightshades, 2 Kinetik 2400's.
Do not have the exact volts/amps because it is not an SPL setup and only something that she was playing around with in the 0-500 class. If I told you 2000 watts, it was a guess before I clamped it. However, my amp has been in 3 different cars. All at .5 ohm and I have yet to clamp over 1500 watts? Maybe it's you extra battery, your radio, your extra power wire, or maybe you are just more talented than me? I don't know.
Anyway, thank you for your praise. I thank you because I must be doing something right if you cannot believe that # is possible with 1400 watts in my CRX. I guess I'm that good? So, thank you.
Also, I will not try to prove this anymore because I am now running 2 3000's in my CRX and I'm not about to change it for you.
Show me your # Saturday and I'll show mine. Then, we can Bass Race the 149.9 class together. Never tried it, but I did win with all perfect scores in the 139 class this past Saturday.
-------------------- Team Outcast Team DB UNIT "Carolina Chapter" 1990 Honda CRX 2009 Iasca SBN Stock Pro 1 Champion 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback 2008 Iasca Adv. No Wall 1 North American Champion 2007 Db Drag 1st SM 3-4 and 4th Bass Race Florida Regionals 2007 2nd overall in US points and 9th overall in World 2007 Competion Only Pro and Hardcore Points Champion 2007 Meca M5 Points Champion and South Carolina Champion 2007 NSPL NW Points Champion 2007 NSPL Pro Points Champion 2006 NSPL Pro Points Champion
posted
Oh, and yes, I think your #'s are possible. I have seen that power from other competitors. Different setup than mine and different ohm loads though.
-------------------- Team Outcast Team DB UNIT "Carolina Chapter" 1990 Honda CRX 2009 Iasca SBN Stock Pro 1 Champion 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback 2008 Iasca Adv. No Wall 1 North American Champion 2007 Db Drag 1st SM 3-4 and 4th Bass Race Florida Regionals 2007 2nd overall in US points and 9th overall in World 2007 Competion Only Pro and Hardcore Points Champion 2007 Meca M5 Points Champion and South Carolina Champion 2007 NSPL NW Points Champion 2007 NSPL Pro Points Champion 2006 NSPL Pro Points Champion
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Zach, if I had to guess I would say you're turning your volume up too much driving well into clipping. I've done that as well with my 1500s and got the clamps to read higher #s but it doesn't add any deebeez on the TL. Just makes the subs sound really bad. That 1700watts I clamped was full tilt. Jacob's clamp calculates power for you so I don't have the actual voltage & amperage readings.
Steve, my rise in Greenville was from 0.25 to 0.72 and in High Point it was from 0.25 to 0.8.
quote:Originally posted by Derrick824: Zach, if I had to guess I would say you're turning your volume up too much driving well into clipping. I've done that as well with my 1500s and got the clamps to read higher #s but it doesn't add any deebeez on the TL. Just makes the subs sound really bad. That 1700watts I clamped was full tilt. Jacob's clamp calculates power for you so I don't have the actual voltage & amperage readings.
Steve, my rise in Greenville was from 0.25 to 0.72 and in High Point it was from 0.25 to 0.8.
Well, what do you think? You heard my car at pretty much full listening volume in Greenville. Do you think that the subs sounded like ass? It's worth a try turning the amps or deck even down some and seeing if the numbers are the same. It is okay to have a soft clip because your spl will be louder and it shouldn't damage the woofers at all. I've never measured on an o scope before, but I listen to the car and have NEVER had a problem with these subs.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention too that Jacob and Brandon were the one's who set the gains on my 1500d's in the first place and I haven't changed anything any different than what they had set when I first put them in last October.
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Everything seemed fine in there - we set em until they quit getting louder. Zach may have a different phase angle on his reactive load so it clamps higher on Fred's meters.
-------------------- - Jacob Fuller Posts: 977 | From: Mooresville, NC | Registered: Oct 2001
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I'm going to do some clamp tests of my own later on today to see if my numbers are matching up to what Fred is getting on his meter's. I know I don't have a true rms meter at all, so I will just divide by .707 to get a close estimate of power.
-------------------- TEAM SUNDOWN AUDIO 2009 NSPL Car 1801-3600 Watt Record Holder: 151.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-Up Watt Record Holder: 152.6db 2009 NSPL Car Hardcore Record Holder: 155.2db 2009 NSPL Car 3601-UP, Car Hardcore, and Car Points World Champion Posts: 1828 | From: The Triad | Registered: Jan 2008
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I didn't know if you possibly gave it more volume during a burp. Just a guess. There are some competitors who do that. Just because your head unit maxes out at volume 50 doesn't mean you need to take it there (they know who they are). One click of the volume into clipping gives me another 0.2db. Anymore than that is just spiking #s on the clamps.
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Our true rms clamps read dead on with Fred's as long as I read them in real time and don't use peak hold. They were also right on with Jacob's clamp reading only 60watts different when measuring 4kwatts of output.
I just recently purchased a Fluke to see how it would compare to our Craftsman and they read identical.
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Zach,after all these replies,I know what we need to do.Cause some things are not adding up,on our side.
-------------------- MR. SEARS (LOUD) LIL WHITE CAVY TEAM HIGH X-CURSION STEVE(TEAM CAPTAIN) TEAM DD 2009 SS-NW AND STREET C(THEY'RE HERE) 2008 TRUNK MODIFIED WORLD RECORD HOLDER (153)12v certified legal TL 2008 2007 PRO TRUNK WORLD FINALS (150.9<150.2)12v 2006 PRO TRUNK 1x WORLD RECORD HOLDER(151.2)12v 2005 NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD RECORD HOLDER(148.1)12v 2005 1x NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD CHAMPION 12v 2004 2nd PLACE TRUNK STOCK WORLD FINALIST (141.6)12v 1989 Installed my first system Posts: 1566 | From: Elizabeth City,NC | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Derrick824: I didn't know if you possibly gave it more volume during a burp. Just a guess. There are some competitors who do that. Just because your head unit maxes out at volume 50 doesn't mean you need to take it there (they know who they are). One click of the volume into clipping gives me another 0.2db. Anymore than that is just spiking #s on the clamps.
Of course Derrick,good point,but we already know this.But it is funny that some people do that.
-------------------- MR. SEARS (LOUD) LIL WHITE CAVY TEAM HIGH X-CURSION STEVE(TEAM CAPTAIN) TEAM DD 2009 SS-NW AND STREET C(THEY'RE HERE) 2008 TRUNK MODIFIED WORLD RECORD HOLDER (153)12v certified legal TL 2008 2007 PRO TRUNK WORLD FINALS (150.9<150.2)12v 2006 PRO TRUNK 1x WORLD RECORD HOLDER(151.2)12v 2005 NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD RECORD HOLDER(148.1)12v 2005 1x NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD CHAMPION 12v 2004 2nd PLACE TRUNK STOCK WORLD FINALIST (141.6)12v 1989 Installed my first system Posts: 1566 | From: Elizabeth City,NC | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by CookieMonster: Zach, Again, if you would come to some shows you would learn alot about me. When I am working on an SPL setup, I clamp mine at every show, every burp. Learned that from a Db Drag World Champion (Thanks Ryan) Here are her results from the Andrews show: Ms. Cookie Ama. 0-500 150.1 db @ 1387 clamped power .5 ohm rise to 1.8. 1 Sundown 1500, 2 Sundown 12" Nightshades, 2 Kinetik 2400's.
Do not have the exact volts/amps because it is not an SPL setup and only something that she was playing around with in the 0-500 class. If I told you 2000 watts, it was a guess before I clamped it. However, my amp has been in 3 different cars. All at .5 ohm and I have yet to clamp over 1500 watts? Maybe it's you extra battery, your radio, your extra power wire, or maybe you are just more talented than me? I don't know.
Anyway, thank you for your praise. I thank you because I must be doing something right if you cannot believe that # is possible with 1400 watts in my CRX. I guess I'm that good? So, thank you.
Also, I will not try to prove this anymore because I am now running 2 3000's in my CRX and I'm not about to change it for you.
Show me your # Saturday and I'll show mine. Then, we can Bass Race the 149.9 class together. Never tried it, but I did win with all perfect scores in the 139 class this past Saturday.
Walt,it's not that Zach,was doubting you,what is bothering him,and me for that matter,is how come eveyone is clamping less wattage than him,with the same amplifier,and basically the same impedance rise.Watts is watts,power is power,impedance is impedance.
-------------------- MR. SEARS (LOUD) LIL WHITE CAVY TEAM HIGH X-CURSION STEVE(TEAM CAPTAIN) TEAM DD 2009 SS-NW AND STREET C(THEY'RE HERE) 2008 TRUNK MODIFIED WORLD RECORD HOLDER (153)12v certified legal TL 2008 2007 PRO TRUNK WORLD FINALS (150.9<150.2)12v 2006 PRO TRUNK 1x WORLD RECORD HOLDER(151.2)12v 2005 NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD RECORD HOLDER(148.1)12v 2005 1x NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD CHAMPION 12v 2004 2nd PLACE TRUNK STOCK WORLD FINALIST (141.6)12v 1989 Installed my first system Posts: 1566 | From: Elizabeth City,NC | Registered: Feb 2006
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Also if everyone is clamping less power than Zach,it will also give them an andvantage,because it will ultimately allow others to make more usable power than Zach.Think this ...if Zach is clamping over 3400w,he only has about 200 more usable watts.If he was clamping what most of you are clamping,it would be about 2800w or less,with 800 or more usable watts.You see what we are saying now?
-------------------- MR. SEARS (LOUD) LIL WHITE CAVY TEAM HIGH X-CURSION STEVE(TEAM CAPTAIN) TEAM DD 2009 SS-NW AND STREET C(THEY'RE HERE) 2008 TRUNK MODIFIED WORLD RECORD HOLDER (153)12v certified legal TL 2008 2007 PRO TRUNK WORLD FINALS (150.9<150.2)12v 2006 PRO TRUNK 1x WORLD RECORD HOLDER(151.2)12v 2005 NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD RECORD HOLDER(148.1)12v 2005 1x NSPL TRUNK STOCK WORLD CHAMPION 12v 2004 2nd PLACE TRUNK STOCK WORLD FINALIST (141.6)12v 1989 Installed my first system Posts: 1566 | From: Elizabeth City,NC | Registered: Feb 2006
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What about voltage? I have seen that Zach was charging is batteries pretty high at the shows?
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posted
it could be voltage drop, it could be a million different things. if spl were cut and dry you could buy a book read it, and be the loudest. that's not quite how it works though.
quote:Originally posted by clkwrkorg36: it could be voltage drop, it could be a million different things. if spl were cut and dry you could buy a book read it, and be the loudest. that's not quite how it works though.
Exactly Ryan,we am going to do some extensive testing,and get down to the bottom of this.Even though this started off on the wrong foot,I see it is heading in a positive direction.
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quote:Originally posted by CookieMonster: What about voltage? I have seen that Zach was charging is batteries pretty high at the shows?
Walt, you've never even been at a show where I charged my batteries at all. I just started this about a month ago. I charge the batteries usually up to 16 volts or so, but it doesn't sit anywhere near that high once I take the charger off and start the car. I did charge the batts up over 17 volts once and I know that wasn't good for them at all. I don't ever plan on doing it again ever anyway.
On a burp I drop to about 12 volts. Usually I sit at around 14.4 give or take a tenth before I burp the car. I'm not using any higher voltage than any one of you guys.
I'm pretty sure that I'm not clipping the amp anyway, at least not a hard clip if it is at all. I can play music all day at loud volumes and the subs don't feel any stress from it. Now if I play at my burp volume for longer than let's say 5 minutes the sub coils will start to heat up and there is a little smell. I never do that though and it shouldn't ever be an issue. I don't listen to my stereo at my burp volume for daily hardly ever. Once in a while I'll get crazy on it to make sure it's still got it.
Jake, we did do a power test on your meter and the amps were making just over 1500 watts in my car at the same impedence as I'm running now. That was with the 12" Nightshade, but it was the same exact coil that I have in my 15" Nightshade. I don't know if the size of the woofer is going to have a lot to do with it, but that may be a bit of a factor.
What Steve and I are having a hard time understanding is how does my car consistantly keep making more power when we aren't doing anything to add any power to the setup. For example NOTHING was changed in my car from the Greenville show to the High Point show and I made a total of 3494 watts in High Point at 43hz and I made 3324 watts at Greenville at 43hz. No power or anything to stiffen the electrical, nothing was different between the two shows except the location and I strangely made 170 more watts in High Point.
Something tells me that there may be some miscalculation in the power reading process. I'll give you some more information here later today when I get to my car to do my own clamp tests with my Craftsman meter.
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quote:Originally posted by Nightshade: Walt, you've never even been at a show where I charged my batteries at all. I just started this about a month ago.
You mentioned charging your batteries at a high voltage in your spl thread. That's probably what Walt meant by "seen" it.
quote:Originally posted by Nightshade: Walt, you've never even been at a show where I charged my batteries at all. I just started this about a month ago.
You mentioned charging your batteries at a high voltage in your spl thread. That's probably what Walt meant by "seen" it.
Anyway like I said it doesn't sit anywhere near that high in the lanes. In order to do that I'd have to have an adjustable voltage regulator and I do not happen to have one. 14.4 is pretty much it and is no higher than anyone else. I'm just trying to figure out why the rest of you are making such less power than me with the same amp and almost identical impedences especially in Walt's case. At 1.8 ohms my amp made way over 1600 watts, not the 1380 or so that Walt's made. I'm pretty positive that my power is clean since the gains are maybe 3/4 at the most.
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quote:Originally posted by Nightshade: Walt, you've never even been at a show where I charged my batteries at all. I just started this about a month ago.
You mentioned charging your batteries at a high voltage in your spl thread. That's probably what Walt meant by "seen" it.
That is exactly what I meant. It was just a suggestion as to maybe why you get more power.
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quote:Originally posted by clkwrkorg36: is fred using rms multimeters? if not that could be the problem. i've checked an older sundown 1500 and it was about the same as you guys are saying. othawa might remember the exact #, but it was around 1500 at 1.5 or so.
yea ryan u clamped a strapped pair of 1500s for me i remember u saying i was getting 3490 watts for the pair strapped at 1ohm but man that box was effecient.
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