posted
OK, my buddy and I were talking about this before. I personally solder all my wirring when doing alarms/remote starts, but I know of local shops just using T-Taps. Is one better than the other? I know solder provides a very secure long lasting connection, but should I consider the ease of t-taps???
Posts: 375 | From: Buffalo NY | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
i use T-taps on almost everything. as long as you use the proper male spades that lock the taps closed my experience shows them every bit as secure as solder. I've done hundreds of remote starts/alarms, etc.. since i started at the shop i'm at and i've never had a problem with t-taps. well, no....i've never had a failure. i do encounter the occasional nosey mechanic or customer who likes to tug them off, them try to put them on and gets them screwed up in the process, which you wont have with solder. I do solder all security wires when doing GM's (vats, passlock, pk3) and any very small wires where even the red taps may not be quite small enough.
-------------------- Luke Fidler Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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Im a reformed t-tapper I used to t-tap everything as well. I found that after a year or two the t-taps can wiggle loose and loose connection. I also have seen a number of them melted due to current draw for remote start purposes and corroded due to exposer to the elements. I have been soldering everything for the last 4-5 yrs. Actually on a business side note, t-taps are expensive (3M) and take about the same amount of time or more then soldering does. Solder is cheap, just get a good station and it will last a long time. More $$ in your pocket. As a security side t-taps are quite difficult to hide in an install, bright blue/yellow/red plastic thingies hanging under the dash where as with soldering the connections the wiring can be taped/loomed into the factory harness and "poof" it disappears. Anyway that is my $0.02. Hope everyone had a merry one.
posted
the shop i work for uses t-taps as well except for vats, passlock etc... and for any really small wires.... ive done quite a few cars that soldering would be next to impossible but ive found that t-aps are just as reliable as soldering if done right....
-------------------- Scott Van Riper Team Its Real http://www.kinetikpower.com http://www.180db.com 04' DB Drag finals Ex 3-4 169.2 3rd place 04' MECA World Finals 2nd place X2 170.9 04' IDBL World Finals 1st place Ultimate 3 173.4 05' DB Drag Finals ex 1 4th place 06' DB Drag Finals ex 2 2nd place 07' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place 08' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place (loudest losing score 177.3 db lol) Posts: 9099 | From: Morgantown WV | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by TWKTCC: [QB]Im a reformed t-tapper Actually on a business side note, t-taps are expensive (3M) and take about the same amount of time or more then soldering does. Solder is cheap, just get a good station and it will last a long time. More $$ in your pocket. As a security side t-taps are quite difficult to hide in an install, bright blue/yellow/red plastic thingies hanging under the dash where as with soldering the connections the wiring can be taped/loomed into the factory harness and "poof" it disappears. QB]
i dont use 3M brands taps, duh! they are expensive, but the cheap ones i get from Micro Alarm arent bad. and i've done some instances where i can't imagine trying to solder a wire on, as it was hard enough to tap it. i totally agree on the security thing. if its a situation where i need a stealth install, taps are a no-go.
-------------------- Luke Fidler
Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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i've done securtiy for 10+ years now. i am soo glad to see that atleast one other person besides myself only trusts solder! i thought i was alone in this world of T-taps and scotchlock mutants. lol! solder = never even worry about that connection again! (assuming proper soldering job)
-------------------- Team Livewire Posts: 2199 | From: columbus, ohio | Registered: Mar 2001
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In our business, I will ONLY allow SOLDER to be done on any connection to a factory wire in any remote start or security system.
PERIOD.
You want cheap crap, go somewhere else.
-------------------- Jeff President, Sweet Sounds, Inc. Three (3) Time World Champions ('00,'00,'02) Eight (8) Time World Record Holders ('00,'01,'02,'03) www.SweetSounds.com
posted
Finally i have some backing I also have "crimps"butt connectors"t-taps" around the shop as well. They are left over from when i used to use them. Quite dusty now. I havent come across a situation where i couldnt solder yet. Once your used to soldering it is actually about as fast as t-taping. When i did use solderless connectors 3M was the way to go, the other cheap copies resulted in even MORE headaches. It seems all the new folks are solderless these days. A select few old school folks are solderles as well. I guess bottomline, it is the shops/managers/installers choice. I know i wouldnt allow any butt/crimp/t-taps in my car. So i dont put them in customers.
Happy customers = $$$$$ return business and word of mouth.
posted
I've been installing remote starters for 4 years, and I've yet to have a solder connection come back. I wouldn't reccomend t-taps at all. Every once in a while I'll use crimp on connectors, but rarely. Solder connections won't come apart, t-taps might not. Why take that chance if you can avoid it?
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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its goes back to what was said up above.... it is up to each stores owner or manager to decide..... at the store i work for this time of year me and the other installer do between 4-10 remote starts a day... i know that we have never had one come back because of a loose connection... unless a dealership had been messing with it. i also get paid in quantity... so the more i do the more money i make... if i had to solder it would take me twice as long, thats me not everyone... so like i said its the store owners decision...
-------------------- Scott Van Riper Team Its Real http://www.kinetikpower.com http://www.180db.com 04' DB Drag finals Ex 3-4 169.2 3rd place 04' MECA World Finals 2nd place X2 170.9 04' IDBL World Finals 1st place Ultimate 3 173.4 05' DB Drag Finals ex 1 4th place 06' DB Drag Finals ex 2 2nd place 07' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place 08' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place (loudest losing score 177.3 db lol) Posts: 9099 | From: Morgantown WV | Registered: Apr 2001
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i agree, time is a big issue. I'm the only electronics installer at the electronics/auto accessory shop i work at, and the sales guy has no idea how long anything takes....he schedules as many as he can cram into a day. i've done 7 or 8 remote starts in an 8 hour day many times, all with T-Taps...and unless another hand monkeys with it, I have 100% faith in my T-Taps. I can T-Tap wires in most cars without removing any dash panels (except footwell covers) where as to solder them right i'd have to take more of the car apart then reassemble, thus take longer. the right size tap + the proper spade locking it closed = secure
-------------------- Luke Fidler Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
also i forgot to mention, soldering is more intrusive, especially on ignition wires. at least 3-4 times a week i have to remove a remote start for someone buying a new car. with tapes, i just pop the spade and tap off, and one wrap of tape and the cut is gone. with solder more of the wire has to be exposed, thus upon removal leaves a bigger "scar" on the wiring.
-------------------- Luke Fidler Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
t-taps make it easier to remove a alarm and that kinda defeats the purpose of the alarm. some wires like the door lock wires are just too small guage for solder . the main wiring harness should always be soldered . just need to be extra careful if never soldered before , real easy to melt something..
Posts: 347 | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by AK1: t-taps make it easier to remove a alarm and that kinda defeats the purpose of the alarm. some wires like the door lock wires are just too small guage for solder . the main wiring harness should always be soldered . just need to be extra careful if never soldered before , real easy to melt something..
i agree, stealth isnt possible with taps, so in some situations taps cant be used. too small for solder? you mean too small for taps right? cause on tiny wires is usually the only place i solder. oh yheah, and i've never found a lock wire too small for a tap
-------------------- Luke Fidler
Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Originally posted by AK1: [QB]some wires like the door lock wires are just too small guage for solderQB]
I agree with this statement. Some of the smaller wires can get brittle being soldered, even with a low power iron. The only time I don't solder is when I'll occaisionaly crimp some VATS or Passlock wires because they are too small to solder without putting their strength in danger.
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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The only time I don't solder is when I'll occaisionaly crimp some VATS or Passlock wires because they are too small to solder without putting their strength in danger.
i do the exact opposite.....these wires are the only ones i ALWAYS solder, for 2 reasons: 1. if they ever were yanked apart by some wandering hands of a customer or mechanic, it disables the car. 2. wires that small just dont seem to be able to be crimped, even with the smallest connector, securly.
-------------------- Luke Fidler
Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
i agree 100% luke!! i always use a butane soldering pencil to solder my passlock and vats... it works great!
-------------------- Scott Van Riper Team Its Real http://www.kinetikpower.com http://www.180db.com 04' DB Drag finals Ex 3-4 169.2 3rd place 04' MECA World Finals 2nd place X2 170.9 04' IDBL World Finals 1st place Ultimate 3 173.4 05' DB Drag Finals ex 1 4th place 06' DB Drag Finals ex 2 2nd place 07' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place 08' DB Drag Finals ex 2 3rd place (loudest losing score 177.3 db lol) Posts: 9099 | From: Morgantown WV | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
i have never had a wire too weak to solder. solder is just neater when its all done t taps look like a mess to me. the only comebacks i have is when a brain goes bad every once in a while ( usually a Valet not Viper
-------------------- Josh Jones Precision Audio 2002 Super Street 1-2 NW World Finalist Team Soundstream Posts: 419 | From: Lebanon | Registered: Aug 2001
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i do the exact opposite.....these wires are the only ones i ALWAYS solder, for 2 reasons: 1. if they ever were yanked apart by some wandering hands of a customer or mechanic, it disables the car. 2. wires that small just dont seem to be able to be crimped, even with the smallest connector, securly.
I used to solder them, but I found that the wires often can't handle the heat and become brittle. I luckily learned this when they broke, yes broke, not fall apart, on me after I had soldered them. I've yet to have a crimp connection come loose as well, but there have been limited amounts of them so it's not totally conclusive to me.
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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i'll keep a close eye out for that happening, i've never actually considered it before. i usually hold the tiny little VATS wires near where i'm soldering them and they dont seem to get that hot, but ya never know!
-------------------- Luke Fidler Posts: 1930 | From: state college, pa | Registered: Sep 1999
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Ya, if you're fast about it, it shouldn't be a problem. Its when I try to get them really well soldered that it seems to happen. That's just been my experience. Like you said, it's something to watch for.
Posts: 3961 | From: State College, PA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I used to T Tap before I knew better but I have used the proper Taps and had many problems to the point that I dont trust T Taps in general much at all and I can solder just about as fast and not have to worry about the connection again.. My vote for solder from a reformed crimp/tapper..
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